Yup. If the group was melee dominant, Curse of recklesness on the melee target , different one on other mobs (Tongues, Shadow, Elements, Seduce, Fear and then if the mob would run into other mobs, Curse of Recklesness until it comes back, then change the curse so it’ll be feared again) , so yeah, like I said, different experience for me each and everytime, because the groups were different, their builds were different, pulls were different…So yeah. And shadowbolt spam? Not always. Which brings me to the other issue:
Yes, yes and no. In this case, nobody gave a crap about dps. The only important thing was that the pull is successful and everything was perfectly dead. Like you said, shadowbolt spam would make me top the dps meter, but that was not it. You had to use something other than shadowbolt spamming (talking about dungeons here, raids were pretty much shadowbolt spam and this is where dps really mattered).
So to sum it up: raids (not dungeons) back then as a warlock were shadowbolt spam which sucked big time, raiding and dungeons now is spamming rotation written on icy-veins…which still sucks for me even more.
Sure, you could spam shadowbolt in dungeons back then too…but then again, without a way to reduce your threat, it would have been interesting when the boss would turn towards the rest of the group and blow something AoE one-shoting everything…or if you leave that fire elemental un-banished or mob without crowd control 
.
Then this isn’t a problem with the game, it’s a player problem. Different mentality makes for a different experience.
Also about the first part, i actually play classic too, got a level 60, done all raids and dungeons so i don’t know who you’re trying to convince, but what you’re saying there doesn’t match with my in-game experience and i’d take the retail gameplay every day of the week.
Personal choice. I don’t like it at all. Except the raids. They made serious effort with the raids and are top of the class as always.
Speaking only for myself here, not generalizing for the rest of the players community: The game was fine for me until WotLK Call of Crusader patch. Then something went horribly wrong.
All I want is for them to be able to make this game more interesting. Not saying they should get back to their roots, there are people that didn’t like stuff back then, no point in opening old wounds and go in circles all over again. But, I’m sure they are capable and can make something better than this…joke.
Wait, my Ret Pally has a basic 2 minute rotation of 7 buttons with cool down timings and RNG proc bonuses to account for, and Ret Pallys are supposed to be simple to play. Also, I assume you never use stuns / CC or interrupts when you play?
WoW may allow faceroll play but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a benefit to playing a class properly.
It is more complicated than you think.
In the past the concept was based on having a filler plus special spells for special occasions.
For example, fire mobs took no or reduced fire damage, so you had to use frost, etc.
So the skill was not in execution, but in knowledge.
Modern wow shifted everything to rotation (a fancy name of a button-pressing routine), as it needed an artificial complexity after removing of every other aspect of the puzzle.
Now everything is clearly telegraphed, the enemies differ only by the number of targets, but you have a rotation.
The entire paradigm shifted from raid and guild to a single player, whose character must be always effective.
Mythic raiding is far more complex today than raiding was in general when the game started. It’s not really hard to miss the mechanics when bosses don’t do much like those of times of old.
1 Like
And how is it a good thing?
What use is it for me and you anyway?
Do you raid mythic a lot?
Let’s face it: even Method guys said in the interview that end boss mechanics are so overly complicated, that they are worth doing only as a world first race. During normal raiding they don’t do those overtuned bosses.
Your points contradict each other.
It’s too easy because everything is telegraphed but at the same time it’s super complicated.
Old bosses were super easy and had no mechanics but at the same time this is somehow better?
I’m just confused what you are trying to say.
I sometimes do play a game with my left foot when I’m drunk, I confess, its not like that’s important when I’m leveling up or playing in a LFR 
If you’re bored with the baby’s first MMO that retail WoW has become, come join us in Classic. People are nice and social, and playing your class actually requires learning talents, abilities, rotation, and gear.
I just explained to you why you should not compare “rotations” w/o context.
Also my personal preference is with the fun bosses where you need knowledge (like proper Onyxia positioning) to defeat them.
I realize though that in the modern times due to internet people do not have to learn the boss and experiment, thus devs put all the complexity on a near-perfect RNG and execution.
I think the result is much less entertaining and wish they come up with some other approach to raid design.
I don’t think that classes are at all too simple. Last patch I played shaman and to be honest there was too much going on with almost all the active talents chosen (which was the way to go for ST). Surprisingly I had a lot of fun in aoe though. I don’t like this constant “press whatever shines” everywhere though, it used to be a unique thing back in wotlk for mages as, if I remember, no other class had heavy relient procs built into their rotations other than mages.
Complexity doesn’t always mean more fun. For me, making “filler spells” do very little damage reduced the fun a lot. Played this mage back in legion and start of bfa, man I absolutely hated only casting frostbolt waiting for a proc. My record was 12 in a row I think during a boss fight. Someone mentioned classic mages only throw frostbolts, I geniunely don’t have a problem with that in classic because frostbolt deals a ton of damage. Simplicity can also be fun.
1 Like
Just posibility of that speaks of how low game design went.
In terms of design philosophy I think Blizzard’s heart is in the right place.
After MoP they realised that having bloated shortcut bars isn’t necessarily fun nor conductive to more ‘complex’ play. They had the right idea but went too far with the pruning.
I think the general idea behind their current design is to make any class and or spec accessible to the average player but also have a fairly high skill ceiling for those who wish to truly excel. This might easily create the illusion of a class being ‘too easy’… but try compete with actually good players on dmg meters and you’ll see that you’ll fall far behind.
Problem is… it is one thing to have the right idea and philosophy in mind, another to implement it when… 19+ specs are involved… ?
Either way, I think they’ve done a fairly solid job with a lot of specs. They are rather easy to get into but hard to master.
Take destruction lock, for example. A seemingly easy spec to play but not that easy to play at its full potential when a lot of movement is involved.
How do you fit as many chaos bolts into the burst window while also maintaining decent dps during cooldown times?
Of course some classes simply do have higher skill ceilings and some have lower, I don’t think it is something they can do much about if they also want to conserve diversity and uniqueness amongst classes.
1 Like
I find the bosses of Classic fairly boring in comparison to much later expansions. I guess we are all different.
right I will start with, classes aren’t four buttons I don’t know what ur doing but I should defintly be using more then four buttons and that isn’t why they’ve lost complexity either.
Adding additional abilities doesn’t make a class harder to play. Adding more control over the class in the player hands and adding abilities which multifunctional in different ways maximising different things generally brings complexity.
Which u have to think if 1 4 7 5 3 5 or 5 3 7 5 5 3 1 would be stronger in the middle of a fight is when a class becomes challenging not when u press 1 2 3 4 5 6 instead of 1 2 1 2 1 4.
Classes need abilities which react in kits differently and give the player more control over their classes ability in different situations. As right now the simplification was the loss of that in trade for speccs being strong at different things and rotations/priority lists formed around the bases there was only one way to go through it for best results.
On a direct answer.
Ion has already stated he feels pruning went too far and has already stated he’s going to begin the unpruning. But u won’t see that before the next expansion launch.
I would honestly love you to point me to the groups of players participating in mythic raid content on a “no need to learn anything” and a “rely on the RNG” tactics”
Do you honestly believe that onixya is a harder raid encounter then today’s end content raids?
Did you actually play classic?.. u are aware that most die repeatively against mythic raid content continously before finding out how to win.
And before u say “oh well now u follow a guide to find out what to do” people who cleared later after first time runners did exactly that.
And the “well normal is easy!” Is irrelevant. Normal onyxia is the top difficulty for that raid, so comparatively it has to be compared against the top difficulty content of now. Which is mythic.
I think people forget. In classic wow we didn’t have 15 years of raid knowledge theorycrafting and game knowledge that we do now. Hence why contents being absolutely obliterated in WoW classic now.
Not to mention playstyles in Classic for many classes involve lots of auto attacking or wanding. I don’t really see that as more meaningful.
Personal preference probably comes into play but I prefer today’s fast paced fighting to that of waiting for resources to build back up.
That’s what I said. Raids in Legion and BfA are a true masterpiece. I love every moment in it and they don’t get boring, especially on higher difficulties.
But still, the rest of the game needs a clean revamp/upgrade in design.
That being said, I’m looking forward to what the next expansion will bring to the table regarding this issue.
1 Like