"Combat" addons gone in midnight end-game content

[Frieran-gehennas]

@Exiasee-eonar

The day they remove AllTheThings or Altoholic without an ingame replacement that is even better than those, I’m out.

It would be great if they made something like those two addons in-game, ATT is incredibly heavy to run, mousing over currencies causes framedrops because it’s calculating whatever needs to be in the tooltip.

@Concernedape-argent-dawn

What about people with disabilities? What about people with aspergers that will be forced into voice where they can no longer enjoy the endgame?

The fact people like these need to rely on addons to play a game, means the game itself is not great for these people. What Blizzard is doing here is something in the right direction, and now is the time to deliver feedback so that these people don’t need addons to work their way around the game.

@Thanatan-tarren-mill

Wow is great because I can customise my UI and nameplates to a degree that allows optimal play.

While true, many addons add functionality that should be baseline in the code.
Kalieltracker: Why do I need an addon to set-up the quest tracker as I want?
AdvancedInterfaceOptions: Why do I need an addon to see cvars?
AllTheThings: Why do I need an addon to keep track of my collection?
AngryKeyStones: Why do I need an addon to show basic information about a M+ run?
Bigwigs/DBM: Why do I need an addon to tell me information about combat timers?
CanIMogIt: Why do I need an addon to make it easier to see if I already have something collected an appearance?
Classic Quest Log: Why do I need an addon to change the Questlog to the way I prefer?
DejaCharacterStats: Why do I need an addon to see stats of my character?
Details: Why do I need an addon to see how I’m performing?
Dominos: Why do I need an addon to easily set-up my bars with paging?
DynamicCam: Why do I need an addon to dynamically set my camera to whatever situation I’m in?
GTFO: Why do I need an addon to inform me that I’m standing in bad stuff?
Leatrix Maps/Plus: Why do I need addons to change several parts of the UI and other tweaks?
Plater: Why do I need an addon to customize nameplates in a way I can see which mobs I need for a quest or what mobs are important in M+ instances?
Plumber: Why do I need an addon to do tweaks that should have been standard practice in game?
PremadeGroupsFilter: Why do I need an addon to have more filters while finding a group?
TradeSkillMaster: Why do I need an addon to set-up prices for items so I can quickly post them without spending 30 minutes going 1-by-1?
Weakauras: Why do I need an addon for situational stuff, mostly related to combat?
WIM: Why do I need an addon to have an Instant Messenger type Whisper system?

I use a bunch of other addons aside these as well, but to me I wouldn’t mind if they get added to the game itself. The fewer addons I need to make my life easier, the better. It also leads to better performance and far less taint happening, which leads to addons breaking and LUA-error spam like I had a few weeks ago because an addon was broken. It triggered hundreds of times during a raid boss.

@Daratris-moonglade

It’s amazing how some people are completely unable to understand that some add-ons are in fact necessary to some people with disorders or disabilities. How about you next demand the removal of wheelchairs in real life because they are not necessary for you.

Those qol add-ons don’t affect your life, they never show to you anywhere, they have nothing to do with raids, pvp or dungeons.

You don’t see anything wrong with your logic? Why do people need addons to fix something Blizzard should fix instead? This is one of those things that requires feedback from the community to fix/add/change.

Blizzard has added far more accessibility options to World of Warcraft than many other games have, the 1-button rotation is another step to help people with disabilities perform better than they can now without having to press dozens of buttons.

What addons do you really have in mind that someone with disabilities NEEDS or they will not be able to play? Because Blizzard has repeatedly stated they will make information available to players in a way those addons do. So I don’t really understand the doomsday scenarios here.

[Exiasee-eonar (Exiasee)]

@Noztra-burning-blade

Never ever I want a return to the previous trivial profession system with professions being viable for first two weeks of an xpac… It was like your rotation consisting of two skills and one buff.

That is an easily fixed issue. All they need to do is simply give every professions consumables. For example

• Healing Potions: Alchemist primarily. But Jewelcrafters could craft those small statues they used to. And Scribes could have a Scroll of Healing Word or something. So 3 professions could craft something of equal value, which would also drive prices down.
• Weapon stones: Blacksmiths primarily. But Engineers could also craft weapon-attached contraptions that do the same thing.
• Enchants: Enchanters primarily. But Tailors could also craft equivalent ones that are only usable on cloth items, Leatherworkers on Leather and Mail items, and Blacksmiths on Plate items.
• Bomb-type items: Engineers primarily: But Scribes could also have throwable Scrolls

Btw, I also want to see ranks for materials and crafts removed

[Daratris-moonglade]

@Frieran-gehennas

You don’t see anything wrong with your logic? Why do people need addons to fix something Blizzard should fix instead? This is one of those things that requires feedback from the community to fix/add/change.

No, I don’t see anything wrong with my logic when the demand is “ban all addons” instead of “make addons not necessary by changing the game”. All those necessary things hardcoded into game itself would be so much better, in that case I would dump all addons today. My reply was to one that flat out would ban them all and that’s it.

[Beki-argent-dawn]

@Daratris-moonglade

It’s amazing how some people are completely unable to understand that some add-ons are in fact necessary to some people with disorders or disabilities. How about you next demand the removal of wheelchairs in real life because they are not necessary for you.

Those qol add-ons don’t affect your life, they never show to you anywhere, they have nothing to do with raids, pvp or dungeons.

It is amazing how some people are completely unable to understand that those basic functions are still not in the default game, is because of addons.

Allowing addons is allowing Blizzard to slack and asking 3rd party to do their job. As long as those addons are allowed, there is no incentive for Blizzard to make their own version.

It is a great step that Blizzard finally wants to ban addons and do the job by itself.

[Daratris-moonglade]

@Beki-argent-dawn

It is a great step that Blizzard finally wants to ban addons and do the job by itself.

As I have already said, if there would be no need for addons I’d be quite happy with that. But currently there is and first banning them and only then considering replacing them with something else is not the right order. By the time they have done the thinking, many players have left and quite possibly not coming back.

[Beki-argent-dawn]

@Daratris-moonglade

By the time they have done the thinking, many players have left and quite possibly not coming back.

The changes are not even live yet. And you are already predicting that.

In that logic, it doesn’t matter if those players quit, because more newcomers will join the game, because of the changes of simplification and less entry barriers.

Unnecessary and meaningless complication is the last thing current WoW needs. It is annoying for both veterans and newcomers.

The changes are definitely positive and good for the long term.

[Daratris-moonglade]

If you would actually bother to read what I wrote you would know I was not talking about combat addons which are now on their way to oblivion. Good riddance to them. This “unnecessary and meaningless complication” is not what those addons that give more control to what we see and hear do. They are purely optional and for those who struggle with the game in its current state due to one reason or another.
To be more exact, they affect mostly UI, not the actual gameplay. They do not make one combat easier, they don’t bypass any mechanics, they do not give advantage over someone else in any way. If you don’t need them you will quite possibly never even know they exist.

[Arueshalae-tichondrius]

Fine for me provided they come up with a decent replacement for plater. I just recently realised how good some of the profiles are, true game changer.
I will probably miss “Run, Little Girl, run!“, but after a while you know most encounters. I also hope, we get something similar to GTFO, at least as long as there is so much visual clutter and overlapping ground effects.
Of course I was using Details and WeakAuras but it was so hard to set them up to get what I wanted. I won’t be missing them. At least that is what I think now
All in all I am looking forward to what midnight brings.

[Sinaaki-argent-dawn]

@Arueshalae-tichondrius

at least as long as there is so much visual clutter and overlapping ground effects

I think they will simplify this aswell to make combat more accessible to everyone. Removing addons, pruning specs and making combat more simple.

[Arueshalae-tichondrius]

That was already the plan for this patch. Didn’t work as intended, though.

[Zenoutlaw-stormscale]

@Daratris-moonglade

Console port probably won’t end the world as we know it but imagine if wow suddenly becomes part of Xbox subscription.

Or don’t imagine, you’ll sleep better.

I haven’t slept since I read the class changes. Why do you think I’m here at 1 am doomscrolling instead of dreaming?

[Lotharim-argent-dawn]

So you are not able to do it, because so salty? Maybe should have used addons then.

[Thuzar-argent-dawn (Thuzar)]

@Pippy-earthen-ring

I think the opposite. I hate the look of most UI addons. Usually it makes the game completely sterile looking with square ugly boxes and just not a fantasy game at all.

So kind of what they did with the UI update at the end of Shadowlands?

I rarely get to complain about this but the visual design of the current UI is so dry and dull.

[Sooraj-thrall]

@Beki-argent-dawn

Allowing addons is allowing Blizzard to slack and asking 3rd party to do their job. As long as those addons are allowed, there is no incentive for Blizzard to make their own version.

It is a great step that Blizzard finally wants to ban addons and do the job by itself.

wrong line of order here.

Blizzard isnt doing their Job so Addon Creators took up their Slack and developed Accessibility Tools, because Blizz cant be arsed to do so.

For a huge Company like Blizzard People with Handicaps are like 0.x%. And since its a metric and profit driven company, they couldnt care less about these less than 1% people. Why waste dev time on those instead for the 99.x%? Thats how american companies roll, you all need to get that in your heads.

Blizzard is not your friend, they dont want to be your friend, all they want is your money. Its a transaction, money for enjoyment

@Pippy-earthen-ring

I think the opposite. I hate the look of most UI addons. Usually it makes the game completely sterile looking with square ugly boxes and just not a fantasy game at all.

yeah and i dont want all that unneeded glitter stuff on my ui that serves no purpose besides littering my screen

[Sooraj-thrall]

@Wesw-crusader-strike

You see, all these things you mentioned are things that you can actually learn from playing the game full natty.

• how much holy power (class ressource) do i have ?

Well, you’d look at your class resource bar. In the same way you’d have to look at an addon.

• will this procc, trigger another procc, either by talents or tier set ? (which demands to have extensive knowledge by heart)

That is information you should be able to gather through actually reading your talents, and testing out your build. If it’s a random proc, it’s random. If it’s guaranteed, you shouldn’t need an addon to tell you that.

• will i overcap on holy power? do i need to spend some first?

Again, something that you can figure out yourself, through looking at your talents, or your holy power bar.

• will i need to be forced to overcap because if i dont i dont have enough ressource to continue my rotation of holy power generator and spender?

This is a situation where you are literally asking an addon to make a decision for you. Players need to learn to make the decisions for themselves, it adds to the argument of Addons playing the game for you. It’s all information that is readily available to you, either through practice, knowledge of your class, or your resource bars.

• when was my last autohit attack (because those generate holy power) ?

Having an auto hit tracker in retail shouldn’t be a thing. However, I’m not sure of any class that actually needs to have this. If they do, I’m sure this is covered in their recent post about streamlining classes and their mundane abilities.

• do i overcap if i dont spend fast enough before the next autohit?

Again, just look at your resource bar, if you can’t figure it out - you need to be able to learn from that, and develop a better understanding of the class, or the flow of the combat.

• what is the next boss mechanic?

This is one I can see some logic behind. However, again, they’ve mentioned they’re developing something for this.

• what about my cooldowns?

Well, look at them? What addons are you using that show you more information about your cooldowns, over looking at the ability and seeing the timer? Surely the addon is just making it bigger and repositioning it?

• will this lower a cooldown?

You tell me! Learn the class, don’t rely on the addon!

• will we use bloodlust /Heroism soon?

Talk to your team! Co-ordinate it appropriately so you’re well informed!

I really think, with comments like this, you’re putting a spotlight on how much you rely on addons to play the game. You’re playing the addon at that point, and you aren’t actually reacting, anticipating mechanics, looking at the visuals - Instead we’ve got noises playing through our headsets, whistles and alarms, “MOVE NOW” audio clips, a screen full of rubbish - when realistically you can prune all of that, and just pay attention a little bit more and understand your class in more depth.

It forces you (which I agree with) to become more involved with your decision making and forces a level of accountability on the player. If you can’t do a mechanic, then you should learn to deal with that mechanic. Not rely on an addon to make it easier!

I haven’t seen this point of view yet - The removal of addons puts all players on an equal playing field.

I don’t use addons, or I try not to at least. But at the moment, I know I’ll perform to a lower standard than someone who does. They’re accessing third party tools to gain an advantage. I just think that is wrong for a video game. We’re all having different experiences which vary way too much. It’d be good for the state of the game for us all to be on the same page.

Oh yeah because wow is known, to show that information in a clear visual totally not irritating flashy and convoluted way!

Why do you think these addons where developed in the first place???

Because the wow devs failed to provide this information in a intuitive, clean way, that doesnt forces mental gymnastics your eyes flitting from one corner of the screen to another, while being irritated by firework flashes from other spells and boss mechanics.

hell when i pick “strictly only needed spells” in the options i still see how the mage casts fireball, how the warlock casts Hand of Guldan, and the respective animations and flashes, which is not information i need.

at most a melee dps needs to see the healing circles, the warlock portal and other GROUP benefitting spells that are laid on the ground (anti magic zone for example) but all these other animations could be disabled cuz i dont need em. ffxiv provides this for years already.

do you even know how painful it is for melees to look at a raid sometimes?

“oh just look at your talents and look at this” - is such naive comment that simply disqualifies you from a more indepth discussion because you seem to not understand how much cognitive load this demands, and making the correct decision without being punished by the game within a splitsecond.

[Arueshalae-tichondrius]

@Sooraj-thrall

hell when i pick “strictly only needed spells” in the options i still see how the mage casts fireball, how the warlock casts Hand of Guldan, and the respective animations and flashes, which is not information i need.

Because that feature still does nothing and is not working as intended. Obviously it needs to be working once midnight is released.

[Beki-argent-dawn]

@Sooraj-thrall

@Beki-argent-dawn

Allowing addons is allowing Blizzard to slack and asking 3rd party to do their job. As long as those addons are allowed, there is no incentive for Blizzard to make their own version.

It is a great step that Blizzard finally wants to ban addons and do the job by itself.

wrong line of order here.

Blizzard isnt doing their Job so Addon Creators took up their Slack and developed Accessibility Tools, because Blizz cant be arsed to do so.

For a huge Company like Blizzard People with Handicaps are like 0.x%. And since its a metric and profit driven company, they couldnt care less about these less than 1% people. Why waste dev time on those instead for the 99.x%? Thats how american companies roll, you all need to get that in your heads.

Blizzard is not your friend, they dont want to be your friend, all they want is your money. Its a transaction, money for enjoyment.

Yes, I agree with you. Of course, people started to make addons to the game, because some functions they need were not inside the game.

But at the same time, because of the existence of the 3rd party doing the job, Blizzard is not in any urge to improve the default UI/settings.

In long term, addons provides more negative effects than positive, especially in recent years.

They are getting way too powerful and beyond what addons should do in Blizzard’s orginal thoughts. Combat addons like DBM/WA directly influence boss fight design and difficulty. TSM makes AH like a minigame itself and causes lags.

They are way beyond what a “healthy” addon should do to a game.

As for UI customization, accessibility, or RP addons, their functions are very basic and can be easily integrated in to default game by Blizzard.

Banning addons give developers control of how 3rd party can interact and influence the game design, and allow acceptable functions to be integrated while avoid unhealthy interference.

[Iramiw-argent-dawn]

They could have gone for a middle ground.

Some things, like plater profiles, were done since their own version looked like crap.

Some addon’s were made since Blizzard’ s own UI didn’t do it for us, their response is now, not changing their game so it looks more playable, but they just removed things.

Not only the gameplay will be so simplistic and dumb even my grandmother can go play wow without knowing a thing, but also the dev’s approach is simplistic.

I would not have minded a middle ground, but they had to go nuclear on the game, removing so many cool looking and using talents+skills.

Spoken to some mates, they are, like me, also considering stopping since this might impact the fun. Sure, over complicated specs can be toned down, they did that with discipline priest, adding some passives, it was a good change.

But this approach is literally a nuke on specs and classes. And I am sure some people who aren’ t good at some specs and too lazy to learn how to play them, will be delighted that it will be simple now so even they can play them.

They could instead have added some Blizzard UI options to track 1-2 skills. I honestly thought they’ d implement their own things, so add-ons wouldn’t be needed any more. Instead they do this…throw a nuclear bomb on the game. Well done Blizzard, I am sure all the one button fans will be delighted !

[Sooraj-thrall]

@Beki-argent-dawn

Yes, I agree with you. Of course, people started to make addons to the game, because some functions they need were not inside the game.

But at the same time, because of the existence of the 3rd party doing the job, Blizzard is not in any urge to improve the default UI/settings.

In long term, addons provides more negative effects than positive, especially in recent years.

They are getting way too powerful and beyond what addons should do in Blizzard’s orginal thoughts. Combat addons like DBM/WA directly influence boss fight design and difficulty. TSM makes AH like a minigame itself and causes lags.

They are way beyond what a “healthy” addon should do to a game.

As for UI customization, accessibility, or RP addons, their functions are very basic and can be easily integrated in to default game by Blizzard.

Banning addons give developers control of how 3rd party can interact and influence the game design, and allow acceptable functions to be integrated while avoid unhealthy interference.

I agree with you that Addons are overreaching but to demand all Addons to be banned because “its healthier for the game” just begs to start up a huge storm.

They should work together with Addon Devs, and actually give them the Recognition they deserve to make such a tool, to shine a spotlight on this missing part and fixing it, before blizzard did.

Then if their in-house solution reached a acceptable standard on par with the addon functionality they want to ban, then they can kill off the API for that.

But they do it backwards. they kill the full functionality and say “we get this covered TRUST ME BRO” from a company that has an awful trackrecords in regards to trust.

The RP Community Addons for Example. You say “those are easily integrated” here the same thing happens like with handicaps…they (or we since i roleplay) are such a small minority blizzard doesnt care about us and doesnt care if those 0.x% stop playing the game, since, as i said, they are a metric and profit driven company first and not a “player enjoyment first” one.

[Jjang-doomhammer]

My personal use of weakaouras was to represent personal buffs/procs as power auras around my character instead of looking into block of cluttered spell icons that I personally find hard to remember and distracting sometimes, especially if I switch between multiple characters. Blizzard has few power auras added that popping out, but too few and too random, so I just had to finalize it myself. If those customizations are gone, I can already see myself hating future game changes.