You mean in PVP only, right?
Because in PVE, feral druids are insanely strong.
Ofc I mean PvP. In PvE enhancement is alright. Not even remotely as good as a feral though, but alright.
Seriously asking myself if you play this game even… Wolves are literally a pair of stuns and selfheal, whilst giving the owner a speed buff. Shamans still have Frost Shock.
And that is why you walk with your group in AV and shock ally raid until you get that PS proc, which will just happen eventually.
Shamanistic Rage can be used to reduce damage incoming + mana regen
Earth Shield to heal
Riptide to heal
Orc stunreistence is 25% or Warstomp as Tauren?
Roots/Slows don’t exist if Decoy totem
Can root melee with Storm Earth and Fire (also a oh 
button)
Usually have high HP and armor to go with.
Grounding vs Casters/Paladins/Hunters
Do I need to go on? The only consistent here will be fears vs shamans or somehow just straightup 100-0ing them.
Clearly the shaman copers have been playing an entire different game and believe they are not OP at all or something 
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This thread is really delivering on the comedy, so much false posted by trolls
Horde logic: when paladins get nerfed its a bugfix, when shamans get nerfed …wa-wa-wa /cry.
When horde outperforms alliance in raids/bgs its skill, when they don’t its because alliance is favored.
You can’t reason with these people.
P.S. Same people that claim that you can beat a shaman if only you bring all the consumables that exist in the game yet they complain about a 5 minutes bubble that you can counter with a flask of petrification.
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as an alliance warrior main i feel you.
the retri plague is the worst.
In my last raid the retri snatched the BIS DD waist slot - 31 str 1% crit 1% hit.
i miss the times when palas were just heal bots in the skirts
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i honestly wonder where you get your own bs from.
this gotta be either a troll take or just another outright willing lie.
listen Wavé a 2 second stun barely counts as a CC, you’d get away with calling feral spirit a CC based on an actual technicality which is just cringe.
feral spirit is “CC” the same way Ret Paladin is a “DPS class”.
self heal is NOT “CC” that is what we in the industry call sustain, and the amount healed is absolutely pathetic thanks to the pvp aura.
i get that you can’t get higher than 300 dps on garr, and thus might have trouble out-dpsing wolf healing on the shaman due to them basically ticking for more healing than the damage your auto attack class can muster (hint; this is not because they heal a lot, but more because you suck at the game).
the speed buff also isn’t “CC”… i swear dude people say “i lack CC” and you go “but you have mail armor” like bro… just pure ret brain.
frost shock is not CC, its a slow, and slows are usually not classified as “CC”.
CC are effects that lock your character down almost completely, such as roots which removes your ability to move COMPLETELY (not just slowing you down), or polymorph which removes your ability to control your character for a period of time, or a sap/repentance which does the same thing… rogue stun lock and pala HoJ are also usually classified as ‘real’ CC as they last long enough to secure a kill on the target before they get a chance to react.
and then when you run in to close that 20 yard range distance you get hit by 4-5 starfires and instantly gibbed.
there is risk involved with getting the flame shock up and people have been telling you this for like 6 years now - you ignoring this fact doesn’t make it not true.
cannot be used while stunned so unless you are extremely proactive (and thus there’s a good chance you’ll waste it in case you read the situation incorrectly) you won’t get anything out of that whopping 15 seconds of 20% damage reduction.
not sure how this is going to help you against any CC that isn’t a stunlock that happens AFTER you activate it.
the burst damage in the game is also far too high for it to save you in a situation where you outright get blasted.
like sure it might have some value 1v1, but the second there’s more than 1 person attacking you, shamanistic rage won’t do squat to prevent burst damage from killing the shaman, and this is mainly due to the low amounts of mitigation that shamans without a shield (i.e enhancement) has… a shaman without a shield equipped is a glorified rogue who lack the tools that allows a rogue to function.
you might have had a point if enhancement shaman was allowed to wear plate, but alas blizzard has not relented on that yet.
again… pvp aura… mental dex nerf… maelstrom nerf… no healing bonus… pathetic amounts of healing.
that ain’t gonna do squat against CC that isn’t classified as a “stun”, so that’s an almost entirely null point to make because there’s plenty of CC in the game that isn’t stuns… i know, this can be pretty hard to comprehend when you got a huge case of the ret brains, but there are in fact other classes in the game, Wavé.
how the f… okay whatever. wrong. moving on.
true.
decoy is an actual mega crutch and the only thing that allows shaman to function in pvp at all.
we’ve had 20 years to see what happens to shaman in pvp without an ability like this and i can guarantee you it is not getting removed in SoD… perhaps they will reconsider in classic+ or wow 2, but its not going anywhere for now.
btw decoy also counters stuns, which i suspect is why you keep moaning about orc racial… you’re likely throwing your HoJ’s on shamans affected by decoy, because you’re bad and clueless.
this comes at the cost of not having feral spirit.
you won’t see this used in pvp by anyone other than maybe a tank shaman, who will use it to improve his flame shock damage while the totem root is just considered a cherry on top.
ahh yes, that glorious 3.5k healthbar and like 2400 armor (5000 with a shield on).
truly high and astounding amounts of hp and armor.
who could possibly burst through that amirite.
the only spec of shaman who has high amounts of HP and Armor is tank shaman.
indeed, existed 20 years and is extremely unreliable as a counter to i.e frost trap if the opponent has a brain and is extremely restricted in its use due to 20 yards range… your point?
No, you can stop there bro, forever if you please.
also, ironically fear is like the ONE type of CC that shaman actually has a counter to (a weak counter, but a counter nonetheless)… ignorance showing again, Wavé.
the exact same thing could be said for you. like this statement 110% applies to you.
this is literally you in a nutshell.
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LOL.
It’s literally impossible, at this rate they might just convince devs to keep buffing shamans after that patch and then believe “everyone else” is OP. 
LIPs can also do good work, paladin holy damage is kinda bad and isn’t as bursty as physical. But yeah let’s complain about a 5min CD that has at least 2 counters in form of a LIP and Balefire Bolt from Mages. And if you truly wanted to screw paladins just FAP for HoJ.
still a CC if you cared about it, 2s to get a cast off or WF someone to the next GY.
who and where said that “the speed buff is CC”. I didn’t even imply it, are you completely dented?
what am I reading, how is a slow/snare not a CC, you actively hinder their movement and thus control it better for your or other peoples purpose and to control their positioning.
i get that your PvE brain doesn’t understand this but a slow is still a CC, just the fact that it isn’t complete loss of your character.
(https:/ /wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Crowd_control or other sources if you cared enough)
There’s just you yapping about this in all honesty, not to mention that it is 25y because of literally any ele using the STV level 50 totem which increases the range by 5y from Totem of Fiery Precision. And any other ranged class is also at the very same risk as anyone else who tries to get in dots/instant casts/hook.
and that is why you play orc, congratz you might never get stunned and give whoever stunned you a window of getting an attack in or cast off.
it still gets value because if you used it like that you at least have mitigated a good chunk of that burst damage already. literally in anyone’s best interest to make shamans lose character control so they aint healing back up with their infinite mana.
congratz you found out how it is for any melee that cant stealth or is outside of stealth.
with agi on gear you quite frankly dont need it
not everyone plays enhance tank or DPS in PvP, and for those it is still a very valid option to use Riptide/Earth Shield.
Every class has at least one stun to use, except shamans. Not everyone has fear/disorient. Thus that racial is literally the best to have in PvP.
Holy the yapping is real. Decoy soaks a melee hit (the only case you could be right if said weapon had a stun on hit effect). But you surely meant Grounding Totem. Bad and Clueless still knows more about your class than you do about paladins.
Literally every ele goes with Storm Earth and Fire due to the secondary effect, it increases their periodic damage by 60% on flame shock, have you not even noticed your elemental shamans doing really well on fights in PvE on 5 targets or in PvP howmuch damage that one shock does to 5 players?
you forgot to account for 30% more HP during PvP event and AV, but sure let’s ignore that COMPLETELY.
You mean the totem that is gonna get knocked over by anyone with a brain? LOL.
is that why horde whines and complains about bubble out of all things when there’s three things that massively help against bubble.
i am just reading massive skill issues from you, Orizza and Angelik.
- mage balebolt
- LIP, ignoring physical damage (if you want to be really funny Flask of Petri)
- FAP, ignoring HoJ
ahh right, you just gotta use a bunch of 30g consumables that also overwrite other flask effects (and removes them) to counter a baseline paladin ability
if your response to divine shield is to pop a LIP you’re an idiot.
this consumable in no way alleviates your inability to hit the paladin through his immortality bubble.
if you had said “use it when HoJ’d” you’d have a point, but that’s not what you said.
also, living action potion is not even in the game yet, you lemon.
“yeah just use this item that doesn’t exist you moron”…
ret brain.
FAP does not break stuns, thus you’d have to use it before engaging the paladin and win within the 30 seconds it lasts, which guess what; the paladin can easily outlast via his numerous “you can’t touch me” spells that allow him to prolong the fight to an absurd degree.
FAP might be a great counter against bad paladins (such as yourself) but they NEVER work against a skilled paladin.
i said you get off on a technicality.
it IS CC, but to call a 2 second duration “CC” is pretty dishonest, to say the least.
same way sitting here giving advice like “just bring petri flask 5head” is dishonest… like yeah it’s going to save you, but is it fair that i have to invest 30g each time i fight a paladin if i want to win?
this is why, when people discuss class balance, consumables are kept out of the equation, because they cost money.
guess what, i could just sit here and tell you to pop greater fire protection pots like candy and use chromatic flasks (or a variety of other flasks, including that same petri flask) to counter ele shaman, and what would you say to that?
in this example, at least i can make the argument that GFPPs are dirt cheap, whereas the consumable you and that other andy are suggesting people should use will drive you into actual bankruptcy while also having the downside of overwriting other flask effects.
lmao really? how am i going to force the RNG of WF?
ITS RNG DUDE, YOU CAN’T USE IT ON DEMAND.
also lol 2 seconds to cast a spell… that narrows our choice of spells to cast down to literally a single baseline spell, which is lesser healing wave which has a cast time of 1.5 sec.
healing wave is 3 seconds, chain lightning is 2.5 seconds, lightning bolt is 3 seconds.
pvp aura causes lesser healing wave to heal for 400 hp, less than a lvl 40 healing potion, and you get ONE cast, if that, and that’s assuming you time the GCD perfectly to sync with the wolf stun.
bruh, this works like once in a blue moon, and it literally makes no difference even if pulled off successfully, if healing wave was at all usable you might have had a point, but its not, because its not affected by maelstrom.
even when talented by a resto shaman its cast time is 2.5 sec, just long enough for it to be interrupted by the enemy player who was stunned by the wolves.
the only other spell you can cast within the stun duration of the wolves is a lava burst, which is a rune, and that is assuming you start casting the second the stun lands or a second before it does.
right there, you said the wolves are CC (which as explained previously is basically mega bs) and then added the speed buff they provide into the equation, presumably to make the claim that wolves are CC seem less like pure BS… same reason you followed that up with “AnD yoU hAve FroST ShOCk”.
because you can still control your character.
at best a slow/snare can be classified as “soft” cc, because it doesn’t take away your CHARACTER CONTROL.
just in case you don’t know this, right, CC = Crowd/Character Control, hence the initials used to describe it.
also, if you bothered to read the blooming link you yourself just provided, you’d see that indeed snares and roots are, IN THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED, categorized differently than all other CC.
nice self goal once again Wavé.
next time if you’re gonna give a link to back up an argument, maybe read the thing before you wreck yourself.
that’s still 5 yards short, even with that totem. lol. point still stands.
that is in fact why i play orc, yes. because shaman historically is very vulnerable to CC (as pointed out earlier) and having a racial that alleviates that weakness has a huge influence on your ability to succeed.
same reason you’d pick a dwarf when fighting a priest, druid, warrior or rogue because their racial is a great counter against those classes.
tit for tat bro.
keep seething.
still going on about that “infinite mana” huh.
seal of matyrdom is your infinite mana, too bad the only class that counters that infinite mana is shaman.
sucks to suck bro.
are you telling me agi gives enough armor/dodge to serve as actual mitigation?
B
R
U
H.
thanks to alliance players whining and moaning, it is in fact THE ONLY option for ALL specs now, because without them all, you won’t survive in pvp.
wrong btw.
hahahahahahha brooooo go read the tooltip you actual lemon.
decoy makes you immune to stun for the duration.
jesus CHRIST, Wavé.
but you just said they all use wolves… which one is it then, bro?
yes, lets. because not all pvp is tailored to some trash event and pve bgs.
yes. that totem.
doubling down on the sheer ret brains.
balefire bolt is not used by mages in pvp because it competes with meta pvp runes.
LIP literally doesn’t exist and does nothing against bubble.
same for FAP with the only exception being “it exists”.
ret brain.
Grace of Air gives 67 (+ 10 when talented) Agility.
And Strength of Earth gives 60 (+9 when talented) Strength.
So even with talents they give less than the 89 Agility and Strength the Paladins get.
Also it’s 2 global cooldowns to place the totems + a global cooldown to move the totems within range.
Totems have 20 yard range without 2 set bonus on Tier 1, 40 with.
With phase 5 coming, that means a lot will be back to 20 yard range.
The best way to balance it out now, is to increase the totem duration at least to 5 minutes. That way the Horde get something good out of it, since we’ll still have to keep projecting our totems around with a global, unlike the Paladins that just have 30 yard range on their Horn.
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Or just add an backpack to the totems, so you can run around with them.
Does the paladin Horn get dropped on the ground behind them? No…
is that why horde whines and complains about bubble out of all things when there’s three things that massively help against bubble.
i am just reading massive skill issues from you, Orizza and Angelik.
- mage balebolt
- LIP, ignoring physical damage (if you want to be really funny Flask of Petri)
- FAP, ignoring HoJ
Funny you say LiP, only makes you immune to Physical dmg and as far i know 90% of the paladins attack outside of autoattack is HOLY dmg!?..
Also Lip: Limited Invulnerability Potion
6 seconds duration, what about the other 6 seconds the bubble is up?
Again, I am not a Shaman, but I think the 77 is the non improved. 89 when improved. Tho id need a Shaman main to confirm.
Also I dont see what you get by increasing the duration of any of it ? I get if the blessing had a longer duration because you take it with you. But the totem ? Most fights are sub 1 min atm. So an increased duration would not rly make any difference in SoD.
I am a Shaman, and 77 us improved. It’s 67 without on Grace of Air Tooltip on the aura does not update, but tooltip on ability does.
Increasing duration helps since some fights last longer than 2 mins, like Ragnaros, we well as upcoming fights in Phase 5. So having to use 2 extra globals on fights + move totems.
Also on trash we constantly have to refresh em, so it would reduce mana spent, globals used and instead give time to more useful abilities
Ok, in that case I agree, make both 77 if imp, and that would be the end of it.
Also give longer totem duration and win win.
Yeah, as a Shaman I don’t need to get some insanely overpowered ability to “balance out” what Paladins have or get. Just improve some of the problems that are clearly there, and make the 2 factions have a fair comparable buff.
Since totem dropping already takes up 4 globals on their own, extending the duration doesn’t affect the other faction. Having to refresh 5-6 totems with a fight slightly longer than 1 min 50 sec (accounting for pre-popped totems before pull), it’s just a lot of time spent focusing on that. And you add onto that the moving of totems.
But we all know the Alliance have a worse buff currently, so it’s not really a Shaman/Paladin issue, but more so for the raid comp.
We would also love for the 4 totems taking up bag space to be solved, but that’s just a minor annoyance
You downranking totems or what’s going on here? Both max totems give 77 agi or strength respectively, unbuffed. Buffed it’s 88.something.
OH wait it’s an AQ drop, Blizz already accounted for that one then.
One literal stat point for both STR and AGI is not worth 3mins longer totem duration.
Oh look the target dummy brain has returned.
First of all, it is Limited Invulnerbility Potion, you pretend to know stuff but you don’t. People been popping those especially for melee/hunters recently quite often, you would be suprised how well that goes for you.
Secondly you want to mitigate damage taken from the paladin whilst they sit in bubble, they got 3 abilities that do somewhat okay magic damage, Divine Storm is physical weapon damage.
Or even better don’t be in melee whilst the paladin is inside of the bubble? Ever used your brain in your entire life?
Another thing, mages do very much use BFB in PvP, just because they don’t cast it doesn’t mean they don’t use it, not every situation calls for it. If a class as an immunity, expect to see a BFB cast to kill that. It competes with displacement in PvP.
God you truly believe people are this dumb to attempt to use a FAP whilst they are stunned. Paladins are easily pressured into using their bubble if you actually use a brain, thus they will attempt to either stun or incap you. You can trinket the incap and just let FAP deal with HoJ. Duels vs paladins don’t last that long currently, even with bubble.
looooooool are you still yapping whilst doing PvE and pretending you can PvP to begin with or do you actually intend on PvPing?
that is legit nothing compared to something like an active pvper or even better, Druid FC.
Shamans hardly gotta use consumes to do anything (cough they are overtuned), anyone else has to. And if money is a concern, you do dailies or grind something worthwhile.
purge and dispel magic deletes any kind of potion you try to use, absolutely mood point.
oh no its rng, also shamans, what is rng and decide to delete you anyways, like seriously get into pvp or stick to your PvE clowning.
good enough for most occasions, has made differences before, will continue to do so. If you use the other spells you have mentioned you might just stick to PvE.
There are literally 2 classes that it has a pretty good chance at working, and against anyone who mispresses their kick to deal with anything you started casting.
you are literally not reading so let me do it for you because you are a PvE andy.
“Crowd control abilities can be divided into two distinct categories: loss of control abilities, and positional control abilities.” Highlighted the part your rotten brain cannot comprehend.
Actual clown, read more than the first paragraph and you would be successful somewhere.
and here you are being ignorant once more, those other ranged classes literally have the same risk attached to them. You will get hit on any class by any class.
Based on a % of selfdamage done per swing VS based on your mana bar.
Anyone with a brain would have mana return based on mana bar without a downside over getting 10 mana a swing from SoM.
It’s more than you deserved compared to other melee.
“Summons a Decoy Totem for 10 sec with 5 health at the feet of the target that will redirect the next melee or ranged attack made against the target to the totem instead. The totem also grants the target immunity to movement impairing effects for 10 sec.”
Shut up braindead, read it yourself.
you mean at best 3 compared to 1 which isn’t even 90% holy damage? God not only are you at whining but also at math.
doesnt seem to be the truth when SoM was inferior and still is compared to SR as a tool to regain mana.
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I have a better suggestion. Stop cannibalizing shamans for their kit. Leave faction diversity (or what’s left of it) the F alone.
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ahh you’re right, i was thinking of LAP lmao.
LIP is even worse advice though lmao.
By your logic half of the specs in the game are dead from start to finish. Im sure that brings a lot of joy to half the pop that’s playing em.
There are things that make X and Y different and good, and then there are massive buffs that one has and the other does not which affects PvE rankings. Otherwise the same thing will happen always. Everyone moves to Horde and the Alliance dies.
Its SoD, its not suppose to be all the same, if it was ? Id not be here playing, because I dont need to see the same 3 op classes taking a piss on everyone else for 2 years.
Rank 3 is 88, yes. Which we’ll get in December. While Horn comes around September 26th.
3 minutes makes up for having to move around totems all the time and having to use 5-6 casts, instead of 1 extra on a fight longer than 1 min 50 seconds.
Shamanistic Rage got re-buffed once enough people complained about the gap.
Both the abilities for Paladin and Shaman are slightly more OP than they should be, but at 10% I was going oom multiple times, so a small tune did help. But yes, the ability is a bit insane still. Healers never going oom if a raid rotates em properly.
At least Seal of Martyrdom does have something nice in store Wavé
