(LOL, so that’s what you meant by “hybrid”. Yeah, I am out of this exchange.)
Wrath gear still had stuff like int, stamina, str and what have you. It wasn’t just resi and pvp power (pvp power only existed in MoP but that’s an aside)
I agree…if Gekko has ignored me, he shouldn’t be forced into having to respond to my posts, because reasons…rather than wondering what is happening in the half of a conversation, that he can’t see.
That’s exactly how it worked in WotLK. You had a itemlevel X pvp set that had a bonus stat on it called resilience, which made it behave differently in pvp than pve. In pvp, that resiliece effectively provides you with the EHP of itemlevel X+Y, and enemies hitting you would deal damage as if they had an itemlevel of X-Y, which is exactly what the WoD gear system did, except it did it in a more transparent manner without resorting to adding a stat that does nothing, thus creating confusion.
If you would make the slightest effort to understand how this game works, you would have gotten it by now.
It was just as “hybrid” (lol) as the WoD system.
It didn’t adjust ‘dynamically’ to a different ilvl… it was a set of kit you did not wear in PVE content.
(What a trainwreck.)
Let’s hope not.
But that “dynamic adjustment” only gets applied to PvP…
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Lol. It adjusted just as dynamically, because it did different stuff when engaged in pvp compared when you weren’t. And you could very well wear it in pve if you didn’t have better pve stuff, just like the WoD gear. In fact, the first iteration of pvp weapons in tbc were the third BIS weapons for pve in seasons 2 and 3. Wrath S7 weapons were also the third BIS for pve, TBC feral druid had several BiS parts from pvp, and so on. The only times when nothing from PvP was BiS in pve and vice-versa were MoP seasons 13, 14 and 15, and all of WoD. If anything, the WoD system did the job BETTER than the wrath system.
Like I said, we shall see… Maxers were delighted about the announcement of reduced loot drops…and PVPers are delighted by this announcement.
Sure, it comes down to how well any and all ideas are implemented in practice, you can take a good system and implement it badly, but that really applies to anything.
People being optimistic about an idea before being disappointed by it’s implementation isn’t really proof of anything, really.
…and because when it was implemented previously, it was implemented well.
So if they could just copy and paste the principles, it would work great now, too.
I think a difference is there is quite some difference in opinion of “how much gear is too much” in the pve territory, whereas when it comes to pvp, a reduced impact of pve itemisation on pvp games is something pretty much 100% of pvpers agree on, as well as a vast majority agreeing that gear should be a factor, but a small one.
yes there are those who like stomping in high gear and just pwning scrubs in welfare gear, but they are a very small minority of the pvp community and are more comaprable to the twink community than the general pvp community that generally play pvp because they enjoy it, and getting gear is a secondary purpose of that.
The issue with no gear whatsoever is that pvpers obviously do other things like quest, and farm, and having no gear or no means to get any gear in pvp simply makes the rest of the game a total slog, so this kind of proposal (where gear is there, but of low impact outside pvp and dynamic in a way in pvp to reduce ilevel gaps hugely) is probably the solution most pvpers will be happy with.
PvE gear advantage? - Problem solved?
Progress? - Yes, albeit smaller and less gradual and grindy
Boosting? - WIll be reduced as PvP gear becomes less attractive for pve and less essential for actually being participating in any form of PvP (and offers far less advantages).
It isn’t perfect but it does something to these extremely common “gripe” topics for pvpers which are: pve gear in pvp, low bracket smurfing for those looking to get into pvp and a sense of progression.
I think the only people who will be annoyed by it are those who want to own people with gear far worse than theirs and believe that their progress means they have “earned the right to oneshot people in lower pvp”. I mean technically they’ll still be rewarded for such, they’ll have a 10ilevel advantage. But it should make matches more interesting due to less stomping. I would question anyone whose sole purpose of palying pvp is simply to faceroll worse geared and skilled players as opposed to scrapping against competent opponents. It’s like gearing up in SL to get enjoyment out of oneshotting Hogger.
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Well yes, there’s also the fact that we have a precedent that shows that the system works.
Unless you’re Gekko and want your ilevel to be reflective of your “merit” I guess, since WoD gearing p much gave anyone, even the low rated “bg heroes” a chance to get full bis pvp gear.
I think that’s fine personally, but I’m sure someone would be upset.
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I think they should stop considering and do this as soon as possible. This would be the best thing that has happened in this weak expansion.
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There is a PVP vendor, how can PVP players have no gear?
We agree on this.
No no no, what I mean is having a pvp situation where gear is no factor at all (ie gear is not needed: see legion templates) isn’t ideal because it means that despite progressing in their content of choice, it means pvpers are doing nothing to gather gear which allows them to do actual progressive pve content by patch.
So that dude who runs dungeons will go from say 138 to 197 and in doing so be comes quicker at world quests and the maw and torgy, whereas if we assume pvp worked like it did in legion where gear is no issue, the dude who dings 60 and is 138, all the pvp he does does nothing to make that stuff easier as he earns no gear whatsoever - so he is required to do pve stuff just to be able to do this stuff semi-well, despite being perhaps a glad-level player.
That’s what I meant, not the current or proposed situation, but rather why explaining how a “no gear whatsoever” model doesn’t really work in pvp, because contrary to popular belief, most pvpers do do other stuff like questing and rep grinds etc and that stuff getting easier for them as they progress in pvp is something they like much like how pvers enjoy geting quicker at that stuff when they earn more dungeon loot.
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Agreed, unfortunately there is a fairly steady stream of PVPers posting on the forums that they don’t do that content…and that’s why PVE gear should be ineffective in PVP… before reminding us that PVP kit has been a BIS option in some Xpacs, for PVE.
Agreed, but those who literally log in to just Q instanced pvp and do nothing else, not a quest, not a grind, nothing, are probably very small and thus their views should be taken as such.
It is good that WoW has a healthy pvp element, but people must remember it is not a fundementally instanced-pvp only game where you can just load a character and pvp from the menu and it never has been and i’d question those who want it to be that whether they’re playing the right game or not, because it seems a high price to pay and there is literally zero chance of blizzard turning it into that.
The biggest pushback on pve gear in pvp comes from players who are usually looking to enter pvp/mid range and don’t like the fact that because someone has done X raids or whatever this individual has a colossal advantage over them when it comes to placing ranks. If gear didn’t offer such a huge advantage there probably wouldn’t be a complaint to speak of.
In SL at current this is especially bad due to issues with pve loot drops…I mean i pvped on my original main about a month or so ago, in the unranked bracket it was not unusual to see people with 9k or more health than me with lower rating than me because they were decked in pve raid gear and looking to fill one of their missing slots/trinkets. This wasn’t an uncommon situation either.
generally most people in that bracket expect people to be in a simialr situation to them (197 gearish) but very quickl the scene at the low end became a hodgepodge of 197 pvp aspirants looking to find their way fighting off heroic geared pvers whom were looking to get a 220 weapon upgrade and given both individuals were probably newish to pvp, it doesn’t exactly set the scene for a fair exchange of “let skill decide” when one dude has at least 30% if not more health than the other.
Now we see the same with pvp geared chars doing the same to boost people, so a scaling system like this of two tiers (220 and 230) would be ideal as it makes the gap way smaller, so the boosting guy will have that advantage, but it’s not enough unless his opponents are literally braindead and don’t work together. At current you can have a random paid boostee do quite literally nothing in an arena game but run around jumping because their 226 partner will be able to singlehandedly take out two 200ish opponents without a problem even if they play well due to the vastness of the ilevel gap. It’s very discouraging to new players.
Especially if they do well and it effects your placement matches. I have this before I decided to alt. Me and my partner would have a string of games with people with similarish health to us and we’d get a streak of say 4-5 wins, and then the next game it’d place our MMR up a bit and we’d face off against one dude similar to us and the other with 10k more health and then the same for the next match, and the next, and your rating just drops back down to where you began. You need a well over 50% win rate for climb even above 1.4 atm which is bizarre. I get requiring that level of wins to progress to the top, but to move from the starting point? Wierd.
Especially wierd when you see people who pvped very start of season with their 2.1k etc with a 50% or so WR, yet there is no way you’ll get to that rank atm if you maintain a 50/50 WR, not a hope in hell, and this is largely due to the frontloading of difficulty in pvp brackets atm because i’d go as far as to say close to 50% of games in 2s especially have someone who is more than 10-15ilevels above the gear people would be rocking when playing in that bracket at the start of the season.
Maybe skilled players can handle 15ilevel split, but the point is people climbing to 1.4 aren’t that, they’re learning the game, so expecting them to outplay a 15ilevel advantage to “earn their stripes” is way, way overboard, especially given people in the 1.8 range don’t have to do such a thing.
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