“CoS gear becoming prominent in arena isn’t a red flag to us.”

PVP Arenas
41

Again Blizzard doesn’t listen. Stop with “we think…” and start listening to feedback…

2 Likes
42

Except if they do what you suggest (which Id like them to) but leave pve gear as is then people with it still have too much healing/ outs.
Pvp is just crap right now. Every pvper hates the meta, the pacing, the gearing, class design and pve items. Then you have jito whose the equivalent of me telling raiders things i actually know nothing about

43

Dude just stop. Jito has a tendency to just start going against his own views just to be able to squeeze out an argument. It’s just a headache to deal with every time.

3 Likes
44

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
I think I’ve been quite clear in my responses so far, in regards to how I percieve this, and in regards to how Blizzard seems to percieve it. You’re of course free to discuss with others if you want - this topic is not about me.

No, I explained the reason why PvE items exist in PvP, what the pros and cons are, and why Blizzard have settled on the design they have. And then I shared my thoughts on what I personally feel in regards to PvP design and game philosophy.
Take it however you want, but I feel like I’ve clarified it enough now. If I’m still not communicating my point well enough, so it’s understandable, then my apologies.

45

It doesn’t matter what you say you meant: Your two points are at odds with one another.

You cant at one point say you promote the wellbeing and health of this game but then admit to promoting a system that is, as you say yourself, detrimental to the game.

Like I said, you really talked yourself into a bag with that one.

2 Likes
46

Wow, one can almost argue that there’s a need for an open tournament server that all of us can create an instant max level character and only play arenas/bgs with :confused:

1 Like
47

I don’t think I’ve said anything about well-being or health or anything like that.

Last attempt at clarifying (it must be me who’s terrible at writing, I guess)!

PvE gear makes Arena less balanced and less skill-oriented.
PvE gear makes Arena more connected with the RPG nature of the game.

So there’s a pro and a con to PvE items in Arena.

Most people here will say that it’s more important to ensure that Arena is balanced and skill-oriented, so PvE gear should be disabled in Arena.

I say that it’s more important that Arena reflects the RPG nature of WoW, and therefore PvE items should be present in Arena.

I recognize that the side-effect of PvE gear in Arena is that the gameplay becomes less skill-oriented and more imbalanced, and from that perspective the gameplay is of course better off without PvE gear.

But there’s more to it than gameplay alone. Character identity, progression, cohesiveness, reward and usefulness – those things matter as well. And given the choice, those things matter more to me than a skill-based and balanced Arena gameplay does.

Ion basically goes through the same logic in the insights video. In Legion you had templates and the gear was nullified in PvP. That was the design path toward skill-based and balanced Arena gameplay. But Blizzard don’t want to take that path, because what’s more important to them than skill-based and balanced Arena gameplay, is that the game preserves a sense of cohesiveness and stays rooted in its RPG nature. So therefore PvE items remain in PvP.

Hopefully that explains it this time. If not, let’s just leave it at that. This is going in circles and it’s already a discussion that’s often repeated around here. :yum:

48

Like you care about this at all, ROFL. You live for the types of discussion “going in circles”.

49

We all have our demons, that we struggle to contain. :smiling_imp:

1 Like
50

At the end of the day this is an mmo and should feel like one great gear or not none of that stopped the actual good players from still achieving high rating it just ate rolled the likes of people who had no clue how to play and gear had nothing to do with why these people would lose games or not.

Good people will always do well.

51

Wait what? There is another warrior named Unfairless out there? I always knew we are not alone.daaaaaaaemnn

52

Again, you have said you want this game to be the best it could be, but then you contradict that by saying that you support an element of the game that is detrimental to it.

53

In your opinion.

In my opinion the game takes a bigger step toward being the best it can be by preserving its RPG nature and keeping PvE items in PvP, rather than removing them in favor of ensuring that the gameplay is more balanced and skill-oriented.

Gameplay that is balanced and skill-oriented is definitely something that takes precedence on the Tournament server, where no one cares about the game outside the Arena show-match, and that may be why the PvE items are disabled there. But on the Live servers I personally think the RPG aspect of the game is the path to pursue – as far as making the game the best it can be.

Both paths can be seen as good – and I think they are. But the game obviously can’t be both at the same time, so the developers have to commit to one or the other. Include or exclude PvE items in PvP. They opt for including them, and I agree with that, and others here don’t. There you go.

It’s a choice between options, not a contradiction of statements.

If your view on what constitutes “the best it could be” is different from mine, then yours is not by definition right. it’s just different.

54

  1. You say PvE items in PvP make game better - Yes we all enjoy 70% dampen, NOT.

  2. Also I don’t agree with statement that PvE items in arena make it somewhat more RPG like. WoW Arena itself was based on Roman Colosseum which had gladiatorial fights going on between different gladiator schools. Most of the profit was made on betting on winning teams etc therefore they had to be well matched (balanced) in order for people to want to bet.

1 Like
55

Because tournaments are about team play and skill, not who farmed BIS or anything of the like. If everyone starts and has the exact same items / ilvl etc, then it’s a fair fight and it comes down to skill within the team and the players themselves.

56

Fixed it for you, you’re welcome :slight_smile:

57

Your thinking of pve gear in its current state where the items are mostly tank items that drag the game out taking it deeper into dampening the pve gear I’m thinking of are tbc / wotlk where pve gear meant you’d deal a great deal more damage so games would last 2/5 mins not 20.

Balancing the game around PvP isn’t in the best interest of the game as a whole arena was supposed to be another thing to do not change the way the game is designed.

This i want balance nothing ever dies playstyle is really boring can make so many mistakes after another and another and something still won’t die that’s super fun.

Then there’s the likes of the few that want PvP only gear which means something like reslillience for PvP is that really what the be needs PvP gear that makes you even harder to kill? Doubt it maybe could go the other way and make PvP gear that increases the damage you do to other players.

58

Of all the e-sports games out there, how many have to disable the usage of some part of the main game (hero or item) when doing a tournament?
How is it with the WoW’s m+ tournament? Are players players forbidden to use raid gear and only have the m+ gearing available?

3 Likes
59

You sure you want him to answer that? Knowing Jito

1 Like
60

I think that PvP and PvE as two different routes of progress were fine. You had stages:

PvE:

  1. Normal Dungeons (gear and justice points)
  2. Heroic Dungeons (better gear, more justice points and some valor points)
  3. Normal Raids (valor points and epic gear)
  4. Heroic Raids (the best PvE gear besides legendaries)

It was natural progress.

For PvP:

  1. BGs (for honor)
  2. Arenas (for conquest)
  3. Push highest rating you can.

Both routes had gear progression as you had to gather points for PvP gear. When PvE players wanted to PvP they could exchange their Justice Points that they didn’t need for mats or for honor so they could also have some basic gear for PvP.

This system was amazing and healthy. It was also anti rng because if you didn’t drop the item you wanted you could buy some equivalent with worse stats from justice points vendor. The only concern I have is that Justice Points vendor shouldn’t have Tier pieces as this removes the fun of getting them from raid. Maybe old raid tier pieces when there is second tier.

If they want to improve RPG element of the game they should bring back the amount of gem slots we had in the past and more enchants. I remember that Leatherworking, Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Engineering, Jewelcrafting and Enchanting were all viable professions for the whole duration of Expansion because people needed Weapon Chains, Belt Buckles, Spellthreads and Leg Armors. Bringing back old professions gives us extra hours of content because a lot of people like to have as many of them not to buy everything from AH.