Unless you are a ladder raider/pvper or whatever I wouldn’t worry too much about that… Just enjoy the game and don’t worry so much about “numbers”, pick what you like not just what’s OP, that’s my view.
If these abilities can be used in instances, I can already imagine the forum posts from people who are crying because they were declined from a +10 or +15 key, simply because they used the wrong convenant.
If that happens it’s a community problem, not the abilties/covenants themselves. Apparently many think of themselves as top tier raiders and can’t see you don’t actually need the best stuff in everything in order to succeed, there is some acceptable wiggle room.
You don’t need them, but of course it would help. Why would I risk taking someone who doesn’t have the appropriate convenant?
Imagine a RPG with roleplay elements and meaningfull choices. Heretic!
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Choices that have consequences. You make the wrong choice and you will either have to redo your whole convenant or get decline from m+ and raids.
But why does it need to involve core class abilities, it’s not fun i want to change my talents, i want to use aoe abilities and single target ones, why notjust leave it to the cosmetic side for once.
Because it only matters if you want a spot in the ladder and reach top X. Other than that why would it matter if you take a little more or less time. People want to have choices but also want to have the optimal build, you can’t have both, pick one! Having the optimal build already removes the option of choice, because there is always only 1 optimal build, that why it is “optimal”, it is better than any other option. There is no having both, there is no balancing, balance all you want, there will always be 1 that is better for whatever reason. Now if you want an optimal build accept you won’t have a choice in the matter, live with it if that’s what matters most to you. On the other hand if you want a choice and variety accept that most likely what you want won’t be optimal build, suck it up and play how you enjoy even if you don’t pump max numbers. Ask yourself (this is for all, not you specifically), what do you play for? For yourself to enjoy the game your own way? Or to compete with others and see who’s got the best numbers? Whatever the answer accept the consequences of your preference and live with it. I prefer to have choices even if what I choose makes me not have the best build, and I’m fine with it, I’m not the best but at least I enjoy what I do.
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I play because I enjoy the company of my guildmates. That is the sole reason as this expansion killed off almost everything I loved in this game. Now I could technically run an unefficient built - I’m playing with friend, they wouldn’t mind - but I would ultimately disappoint them. Like I have a feral druid who is clearly better then me even though his spec is weaker then mine. I cannot just fall back and enjoy being boosted by my mates.
I could say “git gud” but that would be mean, and today I’m in a good mood. I guess, if what you care is playing with your friends, then adapt, choose what you think is best for all of you. But be mindful you can’t have both ways.
Not that I agree completely with what you said, but with the cosmetic thing I kinda agree, would be nice if your abilities VFX were affected by your Covenant. For example a DH who joined the Bastion, would have gold instead of the fel green, etc…
Yeah, that’s what coices mean. They have consequences.
Then you have to decide: Do you want to role play or do you want to be competitive.
If choices have no consequences they are meaningless.
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I just hope it doesn’t become a matter of “you have to remake your toon from scratch cause you done goofed” or “you have to remake your toon cause the meta shifted to this covenant”
nah don’t worry, you’ll just have to have 4 toons of the same class each for every covenant
It doesnt really matter. Most players are not min maxers and dont care if some covenant will be better over the other. If few min maxers force them self into refarming covenant becouse it has few % better abillities than other it all just their choice and they have no right complain about it.
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I could really bring racials into this and how most high MMR druids are night elves, etc. But its too late to discuss min maxng.
That has nothing to do with what he said tho…
He said most players are not min maxers, and you say most top tier druids are Nelfs, what does one thing have to do with the other?
He is talking about the whole player base, you are talking about a specific group.
And even then, if you wanna go with racials, it’s the same deal as covenants. Competitive players who want to be at the top will choose the best racials, players who don’t care about being at the top will choose the race they like regardless of the racial being the best or not. Just like I said before you can’t have it both ways, have a choice while wanting an optimal build. You either have one or the other. Sure some lucky people out there happen to have the best racial for their class/spec in their favourite race aswell, just like some people will also have the best ability for them in their favourite covenant, ofc that might happen, but it won’t be for all and that’s just what it is. As someone said, choices have consequences, and this will be no different, just like racials.
Edit: replying to your previous comment, as far as I am aware you won’t have to remake your toon if you wanna play in another covenant, you will be able to swap, you simply lose all the stuff you had in the previous one.
Its an example, its late. I’m not going to go into depth but generally its the same context,for instance in arena setting if you’re looking to push your potential you do EVERYTHING this boils down to the very nitty gritty of it, including race Alot of players are min-maxers even without realising. Alot of people play to win after all
You can re-use this context for everything, a class, spec, comp, raid set up. Anything which you can use is a discussion you can argue theres min-maxing for it. Hence why people use the same traits no? To maximise damage with their class, its why people farm for Bis to minmax with their class and spec.
The covenant will boil down to the very same thing. Whether you like it or not, yes some people will do it for fun, story and mog. But those people are more likely to be the same people who do LFR and casual bgs is the peak of their game time.
Or are you telling me applying judgement to every target near you isnt going to be a must for paladin in M+??? which you will need to do on a weekly bases atleast once a week for the weekly chest. The issue with abilities in WoW when your forced to choose between one, especially in a case like this is that the power difference is going to be insanely game breaking most likely the minute you take it to heroic tier and above, its the exact same thing with alot of the class talents. Min maxing exists and its noticable, why because the talents deemed not competitve for x-content or in some cases no content at all.
Thing is it’s not very a choice if everyone is doing it and requires you to do it. Like what if you really like a covenant but it’s ability is super bad for your class while another covenant as a super strong ability ? What if you started to be denied mythic+ runs or raid spots because you don’t have the best covenant ability ? It’s not much of a choice at this point.
We all take usually the best stuff for our toons yes, but that depends. If I am choosing between a certain azerite trait or another I consider my stats, obviously it isn’t gonna affect anything else. Regarding BiS gear, same thing, the look of the gear is irrelevant because of transmog, you only care about the stats so you will obviously get the gear with the best stats, I mean why else wouldn’t you? There is no trade off. That’s not a good example to this discussion, there is nothing to argue there because those “choices” don’t impact anything else besides your numbers, there is no trade off in none of those things. Covenants on the other hand don’t impact only your numbers, there is lore, cosmetics, etc, etc… So there you have to choose what matters more to you, the RP/cosmetic stuff or the abilities? If you only care about having the best stuff and not be kicked of M+ then why is the covenant even relevant? Go for the one with the best ability and that’s it. Oh but I like more of a different convenant due to the looks/lore, well then go for that choice and fck the fact that some people won’t accept you in their raids! What matters more to you? It basicly comes down to this question.
I honestly couldn’t care less for the elitists and for the top tier crap. But hey you do you, just sharing my point of view. I think people should care more about enjoying the game without caring about “measuring d*cks” with one another.