Current MMR situation analysed with ladder data

PVP Arenas
1

Hey there.

Since we seem to have the same bad mmr situation again we already had before the hotfix, so people stop playing on top ratings, spaming mmr problematic in AWC chat, making forum threads about it, etc., I used some data to prove our point!

Therefore I saved some solo shuffle ladder data at 2nd August and 9th August around 1 am cet and compared them with the data from around 3 pm today. The data include all specs except for tanks, outlaw and augmentation!

But before we start, the current mmr inflation seems to be 235 mmr so far. I got to that conclusion by a fresh alt I played yesterday for the first time in shuffle and my personal start mmr was 1735.

We are currently in the 14th week of the season, so if the mmr inflation kicks in after 1 week that would be around 20 mmr per week. But since we already had a mmr fix earlier in the season, it must be less than that?!

The following tables show the cr development in the past 12 days.

For EU:

data group 02/08 09/08 14/08 cr gain
top 100 of each spec 2336 2362 2380 44
top 100 of the ladder 2702 2720 2734 32
top 250 of the ladder 2652 2671 2685 33
top 500 of the ladder 2597 2618 2629 32
top 1000 of the ladder 2527 2549 2560 33
top 5000 of the ladder 2346 2367 2380 34

For NA:

data group 02/08 09/08 14/08 cr gain
top 100 of each spec 2322 2342 2355 33
top 100 of the ladder 2647 2661 2674 27
top 250 of the ladder 2608 2622 2636 28
top 500 of the ladder 2559 2577 2589 30
top 1000 of the ladder 2501 2518 2530 29
top 5000 of the ladder 2326 2347 2358 32

So as you can see, the average rating gain per week is currently around 19cr in EU and 17cr in NA.

Dear Blizzard employees. I don’t know if you forgot to implement the mmr fix to patch 10.1.5, if it is another issue or if the mmr system was made like that on purpose, but the current situation can’t be what you or we want. People stopped playing because there is nothing to win, only to lose!

The mmr inflation should be based on how active a PvP season is, not by fixed margins which don’t take into consideration of how much the mmr inflates or deflates by the amount of active players.

You don’t have such problems in PvE like m+ for example. The content difficulty is there nearly equal every season by scaling enemy strength with item level.

But that concept doesn’t work for PvP. You probably don’t want to adjust the title ranges each season, so it would be very welcome if you could implement a mmr system which makes sure that all titles are each season equally challenging to achieve!

In case for healers in rated solo shuffle, there could be an easy fix for now. They currently suffer the hardest because their role is the least played and therefore the mmr lags behind quite a lot. Just calculate their mmr and cr normally but add another value to it. For example 5!

So every time they play a 3-3 lobby they don’t get 0-3 rating for it but 5-8 rating instead. If they played 1-5 they don’t lose 50 mmr and rating anymore but 45 instead. That is not a great solution and you should think about another solution for them, but it would at least be something to start with.

Thanks for your time!

5 Likes
2

That’s a great post!

data > everything else

My theory is that the devs are so suspiciously silent on the whole MMR fiasco because they are currently revamping the system. One can hope…

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3

Would like to add to the data post that rating gains have been gatekept by attrociously bloated specs right now.

This has been a problem for a while now, arguably the entire Season 2, but with the recent patch and these newly “buffed or added” specs have caused this issue to skyrocket.

Speaking with multiple healer main friends of mine, including my own perspective as someone who plays 3 different healers specs, the game also requires some heavy Holy Paladin tuning. One example is a friend Resto Shaman main, who is stuck between 2100 and 2200 CR in 3v3 because of facing Holy Paladin every single game, and at some point even his friends started telling him they would rather push with a Paladin instead. This friend of mine has gotten Gladiator nearly every season for years and has 3000 experience, yet even he rarely gets invited due to the state of healers right now and he refuses to reroll.

This is directly tied to Healers pushing rating right now on a deep level. Holy paladin is literally outclassing every other healer spec by either a good margin, or a very large margin.

You can see this everywhere - from Zenlyn streaming high rated Solo Shuffle and going 1-5 into Holy Paladins regularly, to ladder pushes containing Holy Paladin nearly every single game, to AWC having at least 1 Holy Paladin every single game.

Same has to be said about Mages and Augmentation Evokers. The current iteration of both of them create an environtment where the opposing team which may not have 1 of these specs has an infinitely harder time of winning the game compared to the one who has them.

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4

There is no problem with holy paladin. Problem is all others healers are completly sh it. :rofl:

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^ You’re kind of right. Paladin isn’t even that crazy. It’s not like you can’t win the game cause they just heal endlessly and nothing ever dies. They need a slight adjustment on their mana regen, so they oom a tad bit faster, if they are not able to drink, but that’s kind of it. It’s just that all other healers are bad.

6

I tell the only possible solution to all problems, without your crutches. You apparently do not understand, whatever you come up with, it will not work because 400 people are playing the game.

So, are you ready to hear what needs to be done?

First, the simplest and most ingenious solution (and the most necessary).

This is somehow to get people back into the game, 100k people urgently need to be added to the ladder. To do this, you need to make a free weekend, reward people for playing pvp, figuratively, if you play more than 30 hours (in rated pvp) on a free weekend for a month, you will receive a mount and half a month of subscription.

Second:

Run a week of bonus rated arenas. Suppose that this week, the rating bonus for playing in a 3v3 ladder in a double or even triple size, you will receive not 20 mmr for a victory, but 40 or 60, or for win-streaks you will multiply your mmr and move very quickly from 2100 to 2400 on the win streak, and it is acceptable to do this from Friday to Monday. It motivates people to get in line. A week later, do a week of Solo Shuffle, then a week of RBG, etc.

Since we will limit this to three days, we will force people to prepare for these days, everyone will plan their business months in advance, and everyone will be happy, because everyone will know that if they get in line at any time of the day on any of these three days, they will get enemy team instantly with one and the same MMR.

Third:

The most difficult and necessary in my opinion.
Many take as an example the first season of SL as the largest participation in recent times. If someone doesn’t remember, or doesn’t understand what happened, now the ladder is 90% of the players who love pvp and are eager to get a gladiator, of which only 10% reach the goal. The rest are just wasting their time.

What is missing for all of us? That’s right, we don’t have enough members participation . Now you will not see a single PvE player on the arena, the layer of players is completely the same and not diverse, you mainly play against gladiators at any rating, whatever it is.

We need a layer of players, we need to motivate PvE players to queue in the arena, and so we return to the first season of the SL, PvE players needed top equipment from the arena, on the first day of the rating season, 2400+ pushed in 3s. I believe that everyone who has ever deserved a gladiator and plays every season only for this purpose should receive it. Therefore, you need to return and buffs pvp trinkets for pve. Thus, we will increase the number of participants in the 3v3 bracket, and increase the layer between pve players and pvp, and we will meet different types of opponents.

Conclusion:

Do you know what is the main sadness? There is no feedback from the developers, apparently they don’t give a damn and no one is trying to do anything, on twitch there is nothing else at the AWC tournament other than spam in the chat about the mmr fix. And to my question to the moderator on Warcraft twitch channel, when the developers give an answer to the community? the moderator answered me that this is just spam in the chat and has nothing to do with the current situation in the game. So here’s the guys. Blizzard is happy with how things are in the game, and they are also no longer interested in the consul forum. They didn’t care about anything for a long time.

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7

That is obviously not true! Shuffle is played quite frequently but the mmr is deliberately kept on the ground to artificially increase the popularity of 3s, which didn’t really work out.

Sure, something like this could work. For a moment. And to boost the popularity would be great!

But changing the mmr system completely to make sure it keeps all titles equally challenging but reachable in every season is obviously a lot better in my opinion, as we always had that problem that rating brackets do not work in PvP, when activity fluctuates like crazy from season to season.

And it is not like we couldn’t implement both systems, right? Making PvP more popular again but also changing the mmr system to be prepared for hugely fluctuating activities!

8

I mean at this point, with over 600 mounts in the game and more comming, is there someone who still gives a :poop: about mounts?
Nobody cares. Only mounts that are sought for are these that arent easy to obtain- mythic raid mount, glad mounts - if you give those for free, nobody will give a crap about them aswell. And if you mean giving a different mount, basicaly free recolour of some :poop: …thats exactly what nobody cares about as an reward. Look at that deathwing mount- an amazing cool model and mount, it would be an insane reward in cata for some hard content, instead they gave it for free ro everybody and i habent seen that mount under anyone since like two days after it was released.

Mounts, pets and toys with 5day cd are not a good reward anymore…its not TBC.

9

They will just play solo shuffle anyway, and they probably won’t even have fun. Look, 3v3 arena is dead. Gearing is extremely alt-friendly in PvE, so if we have 400 gladiators, this could mean we only have 150 in reality, because people at that level probably play many characters.

PvP in wow just needs fundamentally a different design approach for it to be popular. They should make it solely focused on fun. Give all the rewards on all brackets. Make every bracket soloqueueable similar to skirmish. Let people grind conquest gear from world pvp, random max level BGs, etc. without ilvl penalty.

Also, gearing needs to become way way way more grindy to stop smurfing, where high mmr players have 20 alts that they queue with at 1.6-2k rating, when their main char is at 2.6k. Gear needs to be grindable from a variety of sources, but it also should be grindy.

Pvp also needs a reward overhaul and seasonal renown with a variety of rewards. Old fomo gear should be available somehow, because that will make people always play to grind rewards that they missed. Elite pvp saddles, or elite gladiator transmog tokens as a final stage of the seasonal reward track could be smart to always incentivize casuals to play the game.

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10

Eh.

My 1858 rating as a holy priest puts me in the top 1000 for the region for holy priests… Seems quite absurd that it would be top 1000.

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11

I actually tried two Shuffles yesterday (healer) and the MMR is totally ridiculous in the healer bracket, feels like Blizzard is telling healers to not play this mode under any circumstances :laughing:

One game I queued into another healer with 3 glad titles and the next game I queued into one with 5 glad + 1 legend titles. On 1700-1800 MMR. Don’t understand how that makes any sense, they should just make the rating percentage based instead (and get rid of the entire inflation mechanic).

12

They shozld propably go back to what it was in s1. Nobody complained about mmr.

And who realy gives a F if ppl are 3600+ rated…

This change added in s2 to make other brackets more popular ended up making the only one, that was active, dead aswell.

2 Likes
13

So you agree that we need more mmr inflation! :slight_smile:

Because mmr is broken. They tried to bring more people back into 3s, but they don’t like to play 3s anymore. So they destroyed the last remaining PvP bracket.

That is why I am asking to fix the mmr system by make the inflation more depending on activity.

14

I think it makes sense that they’ve tried to make rating equal across the brackets but this implementation is just a fail. Also I see where you are both coming from but I still don’t like the idea of rating inflation because it devalues playing the game early in the season somehow. Would also prefer if they’d just merge Shuffle into 3v3 and give premades some kind of MMR penalty.

It just doesn’t make sense how inconsistant the rating is, I feel like my own performance is less relevant than the seasons which I’ve played which is just sad. Last season I was able to get 1800 in Shuffle on the first day of the season, now I’m playing against multi glads at 1700 mmr and even tho I was doing ok it gives me anxiety somehow and just makes me play 2v2 and some 3v3 instead (oh and also because Shuffle is a awful game mode over all :laughing:). I’ve reached 1800 2 months ago (not in Shuffle tho) and now there’s very little to do because 2100 is completely out of reach right now :confused:

15

Even my one 1.8 dps showed on drustvar as rank 750, its deflated as hell

Super deflated season on every brachet be it shuffle 2s or 3s

16

I feel this too when I see 11 season perma challenger now gone duelist on aug and the guy is with his 23% win boomy in my game showing his illusions and his the 0-6 guy entire day, or the milder case people with uhdk who went 1.8 with 4 shuffle or last season retri the biggest rating outliers :')

The ape boosted by aug made me shake my head after witness the guy in 3 shuffle for day go 0-6 on his boomy

Obvously theres something wrong on aug if player like this with permanent challenger for 11 season row and just complete idiot in general now suddenly pushed his duelista as a aug just all skill and good gameplay ofc :clap:

17

Elo system is like 200 years old and mathematically is very simple: it’s about slicing a probability distribution and assigning a certain points value to each cut.

Any modern AI can arrange the players based on their performance history.

With how potent the computers are right now, you can simulate players utility functions and account for all kinds of scenarios (e.g. 5-7 straight losses and quit, or -200 points and stop).

18

You repeat duellist and enchant pretty often, feels like your issue is less about the class balance but rather envy for people getting rewards you want / you wish have a higher prestige.

19

one look at your check pvp and i know why you got salty for someone mentioning perma challengers, as the first time youve hit duelists is on dragonflight shuffles. it seems like your issue is less with me and more with your own shortcomings

i mean i get duelist each season on anything i want there is no doubt about it, you on other hand needed dragonflight and shuffles for it. so it is more likely that you are the one with envy here coming reflect at me with this

and regarding balance it is as i and others have stated, people are annoyed when blizzard does something like drop abomb called retocalypse in the end of the season and we witness some challenger for life individuals gain ratings they dont really deserve but get cause blizzard incompetence and total lack of care for pvp

it is the same when i see 11 season challenger guy gone 2.1 on aug somehow magically currently but everything else he has is 20% and cant make even 1.6 and even the aug now has dropped to 1.8 and started going negative, and im thinking bought aug from someone elses account.

so as you can see when people see illusions or mounts but then witness complete potato brain going 3x 0-6 for the day you see them they get curious how come this person is so bad then if he made something on this deflated season and they look him under microscope and realise the real afair of things

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20

Feels strange to be rank 7 on 2334 cr :slight_smile:

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