Exactly. On my mistweaver in DF the highest contributor to tank healing was ancient teachings. In other words; passive healing while dpssing.
As a DH I could also swap to another class by that logic. Hell letâs get crazier, I could also swap to playing another MMO. If I wanted to tank Iâd be tanking.
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Playing oracle holy priest, my healing done on the tank in a mists run I did:
This tank received 41% of my healing through the instance. I pulled 596k hps, tank(prot warr) did 200k. At some points I couldnât even spend globals damage or the tank wouldâve been clapped, lol. He still got clapped a few times even with me spamming him, guardian spirit proc is from from when he got clapped while I was spamming him, not even with +60% healing did I manage to keep him up.
I got no idea about priests. But Heal and Flash Heal look like ST direct heals to me.
Your in the same boat as all of us. 
Yep. Heal, flash heal & serenity.
Feels like you canât leave most tanks to themselves now. The only that doesnât seem to crumble over if you leave them alone for too long seems to be DK.
DKs will suffer dk things in higher keys. Eventually they will get 1-shotâŚ
Just so weâre clear, I donât want it to go down to 1. Thatâs too far. But without a timer, stretched to its limits, that would be possible.
Anyway, it definitely means Iâll need a lot more healing or even die outright. So weâd go from an instant 1-shot to a good mauling.
I donât want that result.
I guess you may have gotten that impression due to the comparison with a tankless Delve, but I never intended to say that I want tanks gone, I intended to say I want them much weaker, especially as pertains to self-sustain. I want a lot of damage dealers much weaker in this regard also, I should mention.
Itâs quite easy to place limits on how far you can go, but again weâre back to the removing tanks thing. Iâve never wanted tanks gone from dungeon - itâs just a complete misunderstanding of my position.
I want a tank like tBC, for example, has a tank. A player that is harder to kill, has limited to no healing, and whose damage is on the lower side, but definitely something he can do, and then he gets a bunch of control to use against enemies and some bonus threat so he can keep up with DPS, but not necessarily easily - for example he canât deal with 4 players single targeting 4 different targets simply by spamming AoE himself.
Thatâs the whole triage thing. There comes a point where you just canât keep up because too much damage is being taken. If tanks werenât self-healing so much, more would have to come from the healer, and therefore less healing would be available overall.
This change would of course also switch the healing output to more oriented towards the tank, which would allow Blizzard to lower the remarkably high AoE pulsing damage that many fights have in moments where their presence is somewhat ⌠strange.
No, I said basically impossible.
Slight, but important, difference. xD
I said it is close to or ordinarily impossible, but if you do something wildly stupid (or impressive, actually) you may still manage to do it - but itâs a special effort to play bad.
Because tanks are balanced in the damage department, you need the DPS players, who presents the challenges that canât actually hit the tank. Itâs terribly ironic. Last expansion people were starting to play without healers.
Well⌠always have been. Sortta. Not really but sortta.
I donât like the keystone system, specifically. And what I mean by that is specifically the keystone in your bag, how you get it, and how you keep it. Putting a timer for bonuses is fine to me, and being able to submit those with score and leaderboards and all that is fine as well. Quite enjoyable, even.
What I donât like is that if you do not make it in time the keystone degrades, and also that the keystone decides what dungeon to run. âOh but you can choose one of fiveâ - except in cases like this Sunday, where I was in a group with 5 Siege of Boralus. We started out with 3, not wanting to run it, and then they all became Siege.
I think the +1 timer is tightly coupled with the keystone system - and since I want rid of it completely in favour of the system in delves (doing a level unlocks the next one for all dungeons, and thatâs all there is to it) that implies killing the +1 timer as a prerequisite to unlocking dungeons. It can still be a requisite for score and a bonus item, of course.
I should also note that thereâs a substantial amount of M+ capable players out there who do not play it specifically because of the timers. And thatâs actually about 1/3rd of my friends list. A LOT of people donât like those timers. As a bonus, sure, but as a system that actively punishes you for being late, no.
Thereâs no problem with delves. Or, well, not that particular set of problems, itâs got some other ones. I wasnât criticizing delves.
I think thatâs sortta the point. Somehow even if you nerf them by 70% theyâre still stronger defensively. I mean thatâs⌠something. I donât do 3 times their damage.
I donât need it for delves, I need it for dungeons and PvP.
What is happening here is that tanks can gather a very large amount of mobs, itâs encouraging an AoE meta with no CC, that AoE meta is spilling into PvP, flag carriers become impossible to kill in PvP and progressive nerfs have to be put on them to deal with it. In DF it even removed healers from high level play for a while, and Iâm sure thereâs a place not far off where some tank figures out how to do insane damage and all of a sudden youâve got a +25 being smashed by 5 demon hunters or something stupid like that.
Overpowered tanks are causing all sorts of problems because of the meta they create in M+ - it creates bad class design.
dont worry - blizzard already started gutting out those dungeons. wowhead is really busy right now because there are so many nerfs they have to report and test 
not surprising because most of them are undoable in pugs.
as always blizzard tunign team fails completly and utterly
how they are not all fired - i mean like whole team is beyond me - like if any team in any cporporation i worked for perfomed liek this they would be crucified and send awya with âwolfâs ticketâ
yeah - who could have predicted that nerfs to tanks will lead to healers having to heavy spam heal them
oh well - everyone on forums besides trolls trolling that everythign will be ok
now really good tanks manage somehow while weak players ? they just crumble.
maybe he plays only with DKs ?
Its funny this season u can clearly See who the bad players are and who have brains in M+ just saying tbh
These arenât meta, maybe change these to frost dk and furyâŚ
jesus, just buy the veteran items from the renown vendors for resonant crystals + the nerubian trinket for kej - boom you got like 4 584 items. should be enoughâŚ
Nevertheless - you are right this game is a miserable experience right now after reworks and gearing changes but you didnât even touch the tip of the iceberg.
At this moment Imma not continue subbing - once it expires Iâm gone - hopefully for good. but I decided to abandon any kind of pushing because it is a miserable experience. The devs enabled the community to be extremely toxic and picky to the point where no one wants to play with anyone.
My tipping point was sitting in pvp lfm for hours on sunday without finding people to play despite having pvp gear with embellishment and âSomeâ cr to begin with.
I would literally inv anyone but that anyone would leave after a few mins waiting for the 3rd.
as for guilds, friends and communities - these just donât work. Either everyone is busy or already mid-runs when you log or have to go or when they wanna play with you, you might be going or⌠if stars align - someone might try to leech a run off you on a trash lat âcuz we GuIlDiEsâ.
And even if you have VERY good friends⌠well yeah i ran a bunch of DF M+ with same people but no matter what Everyone is whiny - i dont want this dungeons, i dont wanna heal today, i dont wanna play with this or that tank.
You canât win, ever. And donât let me start how your seemingly freindly bud can become the most vitriolic person if you make a mistake that tilts them.
This game, by its design - is just an unironically miserable experience.
Sadly - if you decide to skip the endgame, you will find out there is indeed nothing to do. The outdoor is actually emptyish and small - once you kill all rares and do all treasures and side quests which by my experience takes ca. 2-3 weeks of chill play - you are done.
Itâs better to just find a better hobby or less toxic single player game because Iâm not even sure how much the design influences bad behavior - I have some fringe theory that the Internet made all of us just increasingly horrible.
After all - no matter what kind of degeneracy or vile thing you do - you are mostly safe behind your screen, hunnerds of miles away from the âvictimâ or âpeersâ⌠possibly fully anonymous? You can get banned in the game but then you just⌠move on with your life or buy another bnet account registered on your aunt or brother?
IDK.
Every single aspect of this game is annoying right now and Iâm not even exaggerating - I might even write a very lengthy post to vent/rant some time soon but atm i cba
Maybe theyâre being told to tune it badly to increase engagement numbers and get people talking about it.
I ended up just getting in the keys because there was zero drama in Delves because I was doing them solo. Still, I welcome the nerfs. Iâll just spam +4 until I have 619 in good slots.
Thatâs the top players. Most players are nowhere good enough to play without a healer because they donât avoid or reduce the damage they take well enough. The reason playing a healer gets easier as you go up in keys is because people get better at avoiding/reducing damage, at the highest of keys you pretty much only have to heal unavoidable damage because people just donât get hit by avoidable damage and if they do it just straight up one shots them.
The lower the key, the more difficult it is to heal. Unironically.
its ironic when even really good players on their streams openly say how ridiculous tuning of some instance is
but here +5 internet points
blizzard already started to severly gutt the dungoens this reset - many many more nerfs will follow.
m+ is atm in bizzare state that literalty nothign below +9 is worth doing - much better to just chill in dvelves for next 2 months and then start to push for portal when they fix everything.
honestly that would be my advise - chill out in dvelves - get mutli classes to 619 - check what new meta comp will be - pick that alt and push when dungeons are nerfed.
portals are account wide nayway and gear will be completly reset in s2 so no point farming it if your goal are just portals.
yes but that bevause blizzard has obssesion with putting 2876378326784623786 mechanics which people ignore like 80 % of anyway and try to bruteforce through .
season after season its the same.
I always fought of dungeons and M+ as a group content for people who canât dedicate themselves to a schedule. You know the people who have lives/jobs outside of the game and can play here or there, but also understand the game and know how to play, they just donât know when they will be able to play.
So, making M+ such a sweatlord fest isnât helping these people myself included who PuG. The issue is putting so much requirement on coordination of the group. Interrupts, rotating defensives and so on and yet so little on the personal side like dodging or doing mechanics solo where you donât need voice you just need to perform.
This is effectively alienating what I believe to be the majority of M+ runners to appease the vocal minority of E-Sports players who whine on their podcasts how Andy the weekend player even has the audacity to get portals and be geared as them 2 months in patch and think that everyone who doesnât play WoW 24/7 doesnât DESERVE anything better than LFR gear and should not be able to feel achievement in game.
Simply put in the infinitely scaling system of M+ +10 should be the difficulty of +7 and mechanics of dungeons should move toward individual responsibility and less of a group coordination effort. Let the E-Sport players push their 25s or whatever.
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That was my plan from the start. 4 of my 6 tanks have Hero 2 set already.
During the festive period I might chill in low keys on specs Iâm very bad at like BDK just for fun.
well - just like mythic raiding .
their current tuning is indeed much much more in line with hc / mythic raiding.
problem is dvelves reward much better rewards then any 2-8 keys and are easier then lfr
in general wow is just to hard for general playerbase. which is why it has decliend so much over years.