Dark Ranger customizations for Blood and Night elves 🔴

Community General Discussion
106

I see it the same way, honestly. (Thanks for the link)

I don’t think that anyone is making arguments against any of these…

I may be missing something, but I cannot recall Blood Elves NPCs having further canonical light themed options aside from the golden eyes we already have?

You mentioned light themed options on the Blood Elf customization thread as well, but if I understand correctly these are something you’d LIKE to be implemented, and BECOME canon, rather than something the NPCs already have / a cinematic shows and the character creator is missing.

So to me it feels like ‘red eyes’ and ‘light options’ (if I remember correctly you suggested glowing skins?) are just two different proposals for future race/lore development.

But even though you have a point that it is only undead elves that have the red eyes in-game, blood elf glowing skins have never been shown… so between the two, the second proposal seems weirder to me.

Sure, we see in the lore that different magic energies shape all creatures, but ain’t arcane and light magic exactly what made the high (and then blood) elves look like they do, as opposed to the night elves? They were affected by the fel taint for a relatively short time and that showed through the green eyes, but that is now fading for many of them, so they are returning to their former arcane-and-light-infused selves with golden and blue eyes.

Not saying that new things cannot be added - I just don’t see why this specific additional customization would be necessary or fit the lore, unless we discover yet another group of isolated elves that was changed by the light more than the ‘regular’ high/blood elves.

Said that, playing as a Blood Elf I must agree that tattoos, and scarring would have to be the main/priority features for them.

But I also think that red eyes could be cool, even though I don’t see a Dark Ranger class being implemented on the base that they are Hunters (we see them in the Legion Class Hall) and another elf-only hero class would be boring.

Sure, the Forsaken race got red eyes customization together with all the other colors… problem being, their body ain’t that of an elf. So as a player, if I want to play a Dark Ranger, I am forced to roll an elf.

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107

One is an idea that can be explored and exists only as an idea. If that’s not the route Blizzard wishes to go down, then that’s the way it goes.

My problem with this red eye request is that there is no basis for it in the story and actually goes against the story. It’s an undead customisation that happens to be seen on undead elves, and no elves other than death knights are dead (and those dead elves have unique customisations anyway).

Dark Rangers should be seen as a Forsaken thing, not an Elven thing, because that is what it is.

108

To think that an option for subrace templates within the character customization screen could easily solve this argument without the need to add a hero class… :wink:

p.s. I seriously regret forgetting to check the forums and keep that thread live when SL released. :frowning:

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109

They could always add an undead-like skin option (similar to that of the Death Knight skin) that toggles when you choose the red eyes. I honestly see no reason why not to add them, when they’ve been requested for quite a long time. :woman_shrugging:

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110

I’d love that, and it could be a hunters-only feature if they like, just like there are death-knight-only and demon-hunters-only features. (Even though they are both hero classes.)

And how could I ever argue about the Dark Ranger being undead… we all know they are.

But even though they are undead, when we look at their 3D models, they do not look at all like the Forsaken undead.

Since the Dark Ranger NPCs use High/Blood and Night Elves models, if a player wishes to RP a Dark Ranger they are still forced to roll an elf.

So given these options:

  • Blizzard adds red eyes as an extra customization, possibly locked by a questline or class-specific, in a random mid patch

  • despite the Dark Rangers in the Legion Hunter Halls and a Dark Ranger themed bow and quiver dropping from Sylvanas in the latest raid as Hunter rewards, in 10.0 Blizzard entirely reworks the Hunter class like they altered Warlocks to allow Demon Hunters, and launches a second elf-only Hero class named Dark Rangers which is a revised edition of the MM spec of the Hunter class

  • since the lore states that all races can be undead, but they are not being represented in this way aside from the special Death Knight case, in 10.0 Blizzard adds all race models to the single forsaken race so that when playing an undead a player can choose to look like any of them while having the proper undead flag and racial skills

Which one do you think would be more cost-effective and likely (not saying lore-accurate, just likely) to happen?

In my opinion the first one, seeing how they also just added customizations to the Void Elves to make the people asking for High Elves happy.

But sadly this one is probably even more likely:

  • Blizzard does not care about Dark Rangers that much, and if we want to RP one we can roll a Blood/Night elf and get the Nighthold Mythic Hunter set

:wink:

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111

We know… but it still sucks not being able to change hood/mog. :cry:

So I will keep hoping something special happens, on the base of this in-game text:

Calia: Night elf sentinels? Why are you… By the Light!
Lilian: Many fell at Teldrassil. Some were raised into rage and darkness, turned against their own people. They, too, have been abandoned.
Derek: Calia, I know the pain they suffer. The hopelessness. You must do something for them.
Calia: We will, Derek. Together.

Calia: Greetings. I am Calia Menethil of Lordaeron. I will do my best to help you. Please, come with us.

Lilian: That meeting went exactly as I’d hoped. I believe Calia Menethil can help many who are lost.

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112

This. I don’t even like the appearance of the hood that much, it just makes the head on my Blood elf look enormous compared to the rest of her body :smiling_face_with_tear: So yes, red eyes/undead skin would be nice.

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113

The void elf thing is a complete lore cluster**** and should be treated as a unique event due to the sheer non stop moaning about it that produced the result). And those customisations aren’t actually lore breaking, as discussed in other threads those Void Elves are still fundamentally Void Elves, these new customisations allow those players to pretend better but that just because they wish to pretend to be high elves it doesn’t mean they actually are.

None of them are likely to happen at all, the each have an equal chance of 1-2% so to state which one is likelier is like asking me on what day is likelier you will win the lottery.

Red eyes just don’t make sense on a living Blood Elf. Blood Elf eyes are green for the fel, yellow for holy and blue/violet for arcane. That’s how it works. They can’t have red undead eyes because they’re not undead.

That you can’t RP a dark ranger as a living Blood Elf is probably really low on Blizzard’s priority list right now. Why not make a Forsaken hunter with red eyes and roleplay THEM as a Dark Ranger? Say the only Forsaken to ever make it into their ranks.

It would make more sense than trying to pretend a Blood Elf hunter is actually a zombie. The fact they aren’t dead puts a crimp in that plot.

114

As a matter of facts I DO have an undead huntress alt, among many others. :slight_smile:

However, have you considered that those wanting to play a Dark Ranger may do so because of how the NPCs LOOK - which means, in 99.9% of the cases (the only exception being Nathanos, who has no hump despite of being an undead human) an undead with a perfectly recognizable ELF body shape? And that in the Nighthold raid Blizzard added a Hunter transmog set that actually gives a red eyes glow which make regular living elf characters look exactly like the Dark Rangers NPCs? (Which as said before, is very likely the point where they will draw the line about player options for Dark Rangers)

My understanding of Blizzard’s take on roleplay connected to character customization is that the character’s LOOK comes before the racial flag attached to it. Else, they would have added Wildhammer Dwarves as a separate allied race rather than a customization for regular Dwarves.

Specifically, in a past interview with T&E Danuser literally explained their position bringing up the following example:

“if we give Trolls different skin options that look like other troll tribes besides Darkspears, does that mean we need to make a new starting experiences for them as well…?”

And the answer was no - seen the drain on resources to add even just the little ‘BfA-style’ starting area was huge, as of 9.0 they have rather decided to start implementing more options through the customization of the existing races, and not to limit the players due to storyline and resource concerns they recommend that players feel free to roleplay their characters according to their looks rather than to their racial flags.

And yet, as you have just pointed out, whether we agree or not about them being cool or necessary, they were also clearly added as a compromise to allow for roleplay of High Elves on the Alliance side despite of their racial flag.

But since elves seem to always upset people in a way or another, let me try another example.

The lore states that creatures of all races and classes can be raised as undead.

So what if a player wants to roleplay an undead draenei or tauren priest?
Should they just roll an undead human with a hump, and pretend they belong to a different race, or would it make more sense for them to roll a draenei/tauren and choose a mog that helps suggest they might be concealing an undead body?

Between ‘pretending to have another shape’ and ‘pretending to have another racial flag’ I’d always choose the second… even more so when the Death Knights are exceptions showing how an undead can retain their original race’s looks, racial skills and flag.

But that’s just me of course, and I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. :woman_shrugging:

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115

The problem is - Blizzard tried telling a story about the actual Forsaken Humans becoming “a new band of Rangers” but Blizzard used them for one little quest, then reverted right back to using Elven Dark Rangers. (By 8.1, the main dark rangers that were used were Night Elven Men and Thalassian Elven Women.)

Red eyes is something small, but opens up a wide branch of RP possibilities. They talk about us wanting to play whatever we want, whether it be a Dark Ranger or indeed, a San’layn/Darkfallen.

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116

I disagree with that interpretation entirely. Danuser was saying that what the game was telling you doesn’t matter, if it conflicts with how YOU see your character you can suspend your disbelief and that some of the tools they were offering were to help with that. As I have said to void elf players recently, if they wish to believe they are a high elf and privately pretend that way, that’s up to them so long as they don’t expect me to agree. But all these options, whether the wildhammer tattoos on the dwarves or the sandfury skins on the trolls or even the high elf like customisations on a void elf are entirely consistent with the game’s lore from the perspective of someone who isn’t roleplaying and who seeks consistency from what he is seeing. That Sandfury troll? Darkspear with a Sandfury parent. That Wildhammer Dwarf? He lives among the Bronzebeard now and has adopted some of their ways. That void elf who barely looks like a void elf? Cut him, see him bleed purple.

But red eyes on Blood Elves falls into the same bucket as Void Elf Paladin, something that goes beyond personal preference to breaking existing lore to facilitate it. That’s too far in my opinion. Red eyes for Blood Elves may not be as extreme as Void Elf Paladins, but it’s part of the same dynamic where personal preference is exalted over existing lore. I am opposed to that. Red eyes, a forsaken customisation to represent undead forces should remain with the undead. People should roleplay within the limits the game’s authors have set, not try and upend the story to facilitate every possible angle.

Some angles just can’t be realised without introducing incongruities into the consistency of the world.

117

Within reason. You can play any tribe of Troll you want now, you can come up with a good story as to why they are with the Horde. What you can’t do is roleplay as an undead Troll shadow hunter. That’s not an option. It is beyond the scope of what a Troll is.

Just as undead customisations on living blood elves should be.

118

Indeed, Danuser stated that a player should feel free to do that and even explained that they were giving new customizations to facilitate such process. However, he also precisely explained that they were doing it in such a way not because they did not want to add more races, but because they wanted to make them playable without having to spend further resources in the creation of different unique starting experiences. This is NOT the same as saying that all the Wildhammer-looking characters are actually Bronzebeard, or that all the Sandfury and Dark Trolls are actually Darkspears.

Just think of it: they even added a race-neuter starting experience that a player can use to assume whatever heritage they’d like for their character.

It’s all about granting the players the ability to express themselves and use their imagination DESPITE the racial flag, which is the exact contrary to setting limits to their choices BECAUSE of the racial flag.

Yes, I believe that we can, it is actually by your own previous words that we cannot. It was you who stated above that despite what a player may think of their characters, all of the trolls will ever be are Darkspears due to the racial flag and skills. Ain’t this a contradiction?

But sure, let’s speak of trolls. As far as I can remember there’s no storyline about the Dark Trolls formerly joining the Horde. In fact, it was told that only a single dark troll tribe existed, the Shadowtooth clan, which were wiped out by the Twilight’s Hammer during the attack on Hyjal during the Cataclysm. Speaker Ik’nal was supposed to be the sole survivor.

And yet Blizzard decided that players should feel free to roleplay one of them.

The point being, again: lore is nice and interesting, but clearly Blizzard does not care about enforcing it through game mechanics as much as you would like them to. And, I dare add, many players are fine with that.

The game may have many problems in its current form, but imho the addition of further character customization ain’t one of them. In this specific regard, it is simply the more the better.

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119

That’s how I understood Danuser as well, despite of certain people stressing that my Wildhammer ain’t a Wildhammer because its racial tag says just Dwarf. As a matter of facts, that was what caused me to suggest subraces eventually. I would agree with Danuser about a generic tag working just fine, but it annoys me tremendously that some people would reject my alt’s Wildhammer heritage because the toon doesn’t have it spelled out in the tag.

If it’s ok for a Wildhammer tag to just say ‘dwarf’ and for an undead Death Knight Dwarf to also just say ‘dwarf’, I see no issue role playing an undead toon of a different race/class using a ‘living’ model with mogs and customizations picked accordingly.

It’s undeniable that Dark Rangers were mostly Blood and Night elves when they were alive. The fact that they are now dead may change their political affiliation, but not their racial heritage. A Blood Elf corpse still holds Blood Elf dna. (Or whatever they have in Azeroth)

If this is unacceptable, then all Death Knights’ race tags should be changed to say ‘Undead’ too.

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120

Yes more customizations.

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121

Indeed.

As stated above and anywhere else, my take on the subject is a simple matter of more = better.

122

New Spellbows and Dark Rangers “class skins” concepts by Simaia.

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123

No news about dark rangers in 9.2… but who knows, they might still come in 9.2.5!

Gotta resolve the isses between Sylvanas and Tyrande first of course. :wink:

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124

Doesn’t that mean they’d be Undead?

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Death Knights being undead and yet keeping the original race tag and racial skills shows how Blizzard can apply game mechanics differently depending on what they wish to achieve.

So one can hope.