Cue Alliance turning warmode off in droves cos no welfare 400
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Except alliance all got their 400ilvl gear…its going to be another 10 weeks before that drops from conquest rewards and horde will NEVER get a quest for ilvl 400.
Next week you’ll still get some free 385 and STILL have 25% bonus…while horde will have to earn 500 conquest for some 385…
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Aye, this is damage control, not a fix. Alliance got an essentially free Heroic piece for absolutely no reason with Horde getting nothing to counter it.
The Alliance are being rewarded for nothing and the Horde are being punished for nothing. The Horde didn’t stop the Alliance turning on War Mode. The Alliance just couldn’t be bothered.
There is now more incentive for Horde to turn off War Mode and/or avoid fighting the Alliance so they don’t just get farmed.
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Yes, you can still transfer to ally. Top guilds did.
Working as intended.
Aye, instead of enticing more people into War Mode, scare them away or make them switch side.
Be careful that you don’t give Blizzard any ideas about using this blunder as a “way to balance out the World First Race” - Easy Gear vs Better Racials. Ha!
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You ppl just can’t stop nitpicking, right - now this whole thing reminds me of “Free War Front heroic gear for Horde at the start of BfA”, and no Horde had problem with that.
Well, on EU WF switched before season 2, so no 400 for Alliance from it. You will still get your guaranteed easy free 400 ilvl in what? about 7-10 days. It’ll be OK, stop worrying.
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You are missing the bigger picture lol. People aren’t worried about the free gear.
The fact that this was Blizzards attempt to balance wm out is what’s actually worrying.
90% of the Alliance players will turn wm off the moment the free loot disappears. Problem not solved imo.
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I’m not missing anything, and if ppl didn’t care about free gear - there would be no posts about free 400 ilvl for Alliance, and how it’s not fair, blah blah, etc…
Different players, different motivations to do stuff, yeah how worrying it must be that Devs are trying to bring them into WM by giving them something that they are interested in… no worries at all, lol
And then they are going to get it again.
Anyway, I don’t want to repeat it all again - in this post you can find all the points about bigger picture - The fun "25 horde gank quest" - #32 by Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood . They all stand, even if I made that post before recent WM changes announcement.
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Blinded by your shiney.
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So you do care about it, haha, you couldn’t be more obvious.
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The Warfront problem you have literally just explained yourself and shown how it has nothing to do with the current War Mode problem.
War Front gear was given to both sides. Only a gap of a week was any problem. There was no point fussing over something that would be guaranteed to be equalised in 7-10 days.
War Mode is one sided. Alliance are getting 30% Bonus, essentially free ilvl 400 piece and are able to dominate shards because they have the incentive. Horde do not have this incentive. The system is not built to give them these rewards equally. The system is unbalanced.
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We need ignore WM via full the horde players, that will only ally can play in wm without the horde, it will be fun for Blizzard to return the horde to WM!
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I am worried they’ll bugger it up some how without seeing the actual problem - “50% Bonus for Horde and ilvl 405 gear piece every 25 Alliance you kill repeatable”
Oh dear god, that would be a mess! ^^
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If horde loses players from wm, that’s a good thing for the non quitters, you have a chance to get the extra bonus. The ones that leave wm are not gonna be wpvpers, so it’s no loss. WPvPers are not doing wm for reward anyway.
But, this is actually a clever self correcting system. Gotta realize, it’s not intended to be fair. Blizz like situations of advantage and disadvantage. Without pros and cons, you have stagnation. Even if horde do get the extra some day, then alli will be given extra and it will swing again. I hope it is never 50/50. It was like that on my old pvp realm. Fun at time, boring now.
I appreciated getting my 400 item. I got an extra 1% haste. Didn’t exactly blow me away, but appreciated. But, I am happy to wm without any reward. True wpvp means doin it just for the kills. I prefer being outnumbered like in pre 8.1 
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yeah, it’s overall free items problem. Way to much crying about it on forums, no matter if it’s WM of WF.
If gap is not a problem, then since Alliance didn’t get item lvl upgraded WF, and you’ll get it first - it means you’ll get 400 ilvl WF item earlier too. Reward items from 25 kill quest are from the same items pool of WF items. So, like you’ve said:
Yes, and it’s going to be from time to time, one way or the other. You can’t make all players play in it for the same reasons, some like WPvP, other like rewards more, on both factions.
Yes, that is the point of having an incentive, and it’s working. From yesterdays Q&A - quest is not permanent, it’s going to be turned off when more Alliance in WM, bonus is going to be lowered.
Since both bonus and quest are given to a heavily outnumbered faction, and not just Alliance - Horde has a possibility to get it too.
Yes, Alliance has a more casual player-base, and if anything to blame for it - blame OP horde racials and mass switching over the years, because that is the real reason that brought 8.0 horde dominance.
But it is - it gives this quest to outnumbered faction. Like mercenaries of sorts - one side doesn’t have enough fighters, so they buy more.
And if both side have the same incentive at the same time - it’ll be the same situation as in 8.0 - Horde dominance, because there are a lot more PvP oriented Horde players, and those who don’t mind it to get more/better rewards. We already had that - equal rewards all the time = more Horde than Alliance in WM.
That’s the problem though - I love World PvP! I would not turn it off if I didn’t feel that I had to. WPvP is fun when its balanced. When there is incentive and reward equally on both sides.
Saying that “oh, it’s reward enough for those who like WPvP just to WPvP” is utter nonsense. Why did Alliance get a buff then? Why are you not massively pushing the removal of the 30% + gear rewards instead? Remove the PvE loot hogs and leave only the Alliance WPvPers!
No. It’s a lazy attempt at a fix. It is not about advantage or disadvantage. Blizzard wanted to entice more Alliance into War Mode without thinking of the knock-on affect.
This system is unhealthy. Starving and binge-eating is not healthy. This system is the exact same.
50/50 gives both sides a reason to fight. Both sides have incentive. Both sides play. Both sides fight. How cynical could you be to think that one-side lording it over the other is clever? Half the player-base taking it in turns to be absolutely miserable and beaten on by the other side is never ever healthy.
MASSIVE ADDITION:
Well, an incentive is the problem but free items are an argument in and of themselves. Diluting the progression chain while also promoting RNG. Can’t really fault the crying on the forums; where else will we vent and/or hope to have our voices heard?
It’s therapeutic and also the only visible route to potential progress.
You seem to be trying to pursue arguments way off the point. We are not arguing over Warfronts here. The “25 kill” Quest is not a mirror to the upgraded Warfront rewards. Even if it was, why do the Alliance get it? There is no need for it at all. It is simple Alliance pandering then.
Unless Horde get a “25 kill” Quest next week rewarding ilvl 400 gear while Alliange get their ilvl 400 Warfront quest, and the Horde Quest is given not just because of population gaps, then it is not the same. It is not fair. It is not balanced.
Plus, on top of that, you guys will still be getting some form of reward (potentially 385) next week on top of your Warfront reward.
Again, this that is for Warfronts. War mode is totally different. Warfronts naturally have to be one Faction then the other. Naturally, each side will get the same rewards. War Mode is not like that, it is currently massively unfair when naturally both sides should be competing against each other for the same rewards. There is no inbuilt system that will allow Horde to naturally gain the same rewards.
The system is utterly one-sided and that is unhealthy. If the system flips, then the other side is wrongly disadvantaged,
Exactly! Everyone has their own incentives. But why give incentives to one side over the other? How is that fiar or healthy?
Where is the Horde incentive? Where is the Horde incentive? Where is the Horde incentive? We have PvE Players too. Why does Alliance get free rewards for crying about not being arsed to play the original War Mode?
So you are saying that the vast increase in Alliance players in War Mode is not because of the bigger reward but because they get a bigger reward than the Horde? And you are defending this? That is utterly toxic! That just further proves that the system is wrong.
With both sides getting the same incentive, then both sides should be eager to use the mode. We can already see that the Alliance have the numbers and eagerness when given a big enough carrot.
Why should the Horde be punished just for playing the game mode? Why should the Alliance be rewarded for crying about not getting a big enough reward to be arsed to play?
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About this whole World of RNGcraft? Yes, any time, I’m all up for it, it’s severely bad.
But I honestly don’t think that any 1 rng item is worth so much of drama on forums, especially if it’ll even out eventually, and in a month (if Uldir tier was any indication) nobody would care much about heroic lvl item anyway.
But if therapeutic - yeah, I get it, haha
It’s about free items of high lvl and player progress they give - that is the whole reason why that reward get so much crying about. And in this case WF is relevant - because it is the same pool of rewards, and it’ll even out any progress that was given by this one time 400 ilvl reward.
Alliance pandering, Horde pandering - there is always some pandering if one get rewards and other don’t. First it was Horde, now it’s Alliance, etc - it’ll all even out, just not as fast as we would want it to. But yeah, probably.
I still want that immune toy on Alliance side since I don’t have a horde character, and even with this - I don’t care about pandering, because it always switches sides. But back to the topic…
Mate, be reasonable, you can’t have it all your way. You want bigger WM population and rewards all for your side - it’s not going to happen.
When Alliance will outnumber Horde in WM and difference is going to be big - you’ll get the the quest.
It’s fair, and balanced, at least as much as system like that can be.
We could potentially get that quest, but it’s not a guaranteed as per Q&A.
Because way too many on one side need extra motivation. It wouldn’t be fair if it was hard-coded for one faction, and never turned off. But it isn’t - so it’s as fair as it can be.
Healthy? I think that this whole bonus system is not healthy, and War Mode suppose to have completely different rewards structure. But as far as bonus/quest goes - it’s OK, and I’ll still think the same way when Horde would get this bonus and quest and Alliance wouldn’t.
Why more Horde didn’t turn it off? Why more Horde didn’t turn it off? Why more Horde didn’t turn it off?
Alliance didn’t get it for crying - we get it because data shows that there were much more Horde in WM.
It would be great to have 50/50 balance, and same incentives for both sides, etc, but it is, unfortunately, not possible with current factions player-base state.
You can ignore it for the sake of your argument, or just “can’t care less about it, not my problem” - but it is a problem, and to have a lot of player on both sides - it needed a solution.
Current solution is not great by a mile, but it works.
If you don’t like this system - then propose another, be just as vocal and passionate about it. Because there is no other way to make this bonus-system “better” and still keep it effective, but more about it below.
No, I don’t think it works like that.
More detailed explanation, as needed:
It’s not because it’s “bigger reward than the Horde”. It’s just bigger reward that makes one side to get more players in, while other side, that outnumbers, gets players out.
It’s not the case of one bigger than the other. It is the case of giving a temporary incentive - a juicy enough reward for one side to trigger this effect above.
Since reward this high (even 385) is not intended to stay alway on - if both factions had same incentive, it wouldn’t be higher than 370, which in Season 2 is meaningless. So we would get the same situation as in 8.0, meaningless rewards and more Horde than Alliance.
There is no need to try and twist what I’ve said.
Because this quest and this level of reward is not intended to stay on all the time. Only when needed - when one faction severely outnumbered by the other.
It’s not a permanent reward method - it’s a temporary incentive, there is a huge difference.
this
and then we have this
I think we are done here. I’ve had way to much bickering on forums lately - and this ^ is how it goes that way.
Thank you, it was an interesting discussion up until this point, and with this:
I sincerely wish you good luck in getting something reasonable that you want to.
Have fun venting out!
On the other had, maybe there is a way to make this system feels more like “fair”, but it could be needlessly complex:
- if current difference in WM population is in range of 10-15% bonus, then no faction has a quest
- if current difference is 20% then outnumbered faction gets a quest with 370 as a reward.
- if current difference is 25+% then outnumbered faction gets 385 quest, and other faction gets 370 quest so not everyone leaves.
And that is about the extent of how far this kind of system could be stretched.
Anyway, I’m out of those “bonus-system fair/not fair I deserve more” discussions. Will be happy to discuss and support another, completely different and reasonable system tho.
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Bizzard does not care… alies are happy now…
PVP, lol
Really gj blizz, nice way to make us do the content
Anyway, someone suggested limit extra rewards to those that leave wm on, or something. Seems fair. The on/off brigade are the prob. So, sure turn on or off when you want, but don’t get extra rewards unless left on.
That would reduce the Alliance angry bee mini gank groups.
It would reduce pve’ers.
But the alliance being outnumbered eu would still be there.
Blizz seem happy with the effect of their changes. Time will tell if more changes gonna happen.
Blizz know they can’t please everyone. If trying to encourage more alli, and reduce horde wm’ers, how to do that without annoying someone.
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Oh, delicious horde tears!
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