Delay flying until 9.0

It is less about “wanting to constrain” others and more about the design, really. The absence of flying mounts mean the developers can take more liberties with how to design their world, and we’ve seen them exercise these liberties many times. Do you think a zone like the Timeless Isle would’ve been as fun if flying mounts weren’t disabled? That’s the kind of content I want. It may not be the content that we have, in fact, there seem to be a consensus among people from both camps that the current content is generally pretty awful. I would rather do three or four dailies and have more substantial rewards than being able to do six to eight dailies in the same amount of time.

“Collect 10 items” part already implies 2-3 mobs, I need to kill. It’s +100-200%. And that’s, what is perfectly reasonable. But how many mobs do I need to kill just to get to quest area? How many mobs do I need to kill just to get from one quest item to another? How many mobs do I need to kill just to get to boss? And if there wouldn’t be such crutch, as whistle, I would also need to double this number just to get out of there. Isn’t it exceeding?

Yeah, sometimes situation isn’t that bad. Sometimes I kill mobs just because I’m too lazy to mount. But sometimes it’s big deal. Especially when I’m in undergear. And as I’m casual player, who don’t do high end content and prefers alt leveling, I find myself in such situation very often. That’s when exceeding combat turns into pain.

That’s why some outdoor design is just broken. Some locations are too small. And Blizzard do several things to compensate it. They increase density of mobs. As result, players have to kill them more often. And once players kill them more often, this causes higher respawn rate to compensate. And higher respawn rate not only kills immersion. It makes things even worse, as some classes just can’t handle constant combat - they rely on certain CDs, such as frost shield for Mage.

Yeah, some classes, like Paladin or Monk, have tools to handle such situation. But there are weaker classes, that rely on getting out of combat. Remember? Bandages are removed, but eating food - is still class mechanic for Mages. How can I eat, if I can’t get out of combat?

That’s, what I call “challenge”. Because, I guess, if such problems wouldn’t be intended, Blizzard would certainly fix them sooner or later. They WANT game to be more challenging. But I don’t need this challenge. I stopped doing some other kinds of content, like raids, because I agree, that they should be challenging and I just can’t handle such challenge. But world has always been the last resort for casual players, who can’t handle any other content, except this one.

P.S. In short, what is wrong, is when whole 30k players of server population have to farm exactly the same 10 mobs in tiny 2x2 area, like it was back in TI era.

Was great but you could fly in the rest of MOP which made it all ok inmho just like the Isle in TBC but you people dead set agaisnt flying are wrecking the game for others for your selfish views.

I get so annoyed by people saying the following

“flyers are lazy” …really after the loops we have to jump through now to get said flying ?

“flying is for convenience” …no its not you are idea on the beauti you can see from the sky ?

“people want things on a platter” … 5000g per char in TBC was hardly being gifted flying

Some of you dont even engage your brains before typeing that rubbish .

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Your words…
They are expressing their opinion, saying it is people’s opinion, and subjective, and you describe it as funny. I mean those are your words, right there… There is no reason why anyone else’s words are any more funny or not, than yours…

When introduced later in an expansion? How? How is that skipping everything, if you have already done everything in order to -get- flying?

Have you never seen some of the glorious sights you can see when you can fly? some of the majesty and beauty of the Dev’s work, and think, "Damn, this is just one zone, there are so many others, "

Ermm, again, Read the whole topic, there is indeed such a thing, and you heavily imply it yourself… It -is- a thing, denying it does not change that fact.

Mostly PvP’ers, so not really that invested in this topic…

OK, answer me this. If you log on at say, 3.pm, and do the content on the ground, and get the item, whatever it is, and someone logs in after working the whole day at 7.pm, they fly, and go to the place, and have to do the same content on the ground, and get the item, then what is the difference? Should you be banned from getting the item at 3.p.m because most people work? If you can’t see the problem with banning Flying, then I’m not sure I can persuade you otherwise, It’d be like trying to debate climate change with Trump…

Depends how much later, I’d not want it at start up of an expansion, but round about now is the right time…

I don’t even know how to…right… Where do you get this idea that people hate content because they like flying?

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Your case is a weak one, a terribly weak case.

Ruins immersion? How exactly? You are supposed to put down an example/reason for your Pro’s/con’s instead of just listing them off.

Cons:

  • Ruins W PVP = There are battlegrounds and seeing as WoW is mainly a PVE game with PVP elements, you should not punish the majority of the playerbase to appease a smaller group. If you want PVP, you’ll find it.

  • Ruins Immersion: I don’t see how flying ruins immersion seeing as mounted units have been a thing since before World of Warcraft (Gryphon Rider, Flying Machines just as an example)

  • Ruins the Devs work: Flying hardly ruins the Dev’s work seeing as you had to do without flying for the first half of the expansion and, most people, probably saw everything there is to see, and even if you are new, you can’t straight up start flying but have to earn the achievement which will also get the people out there to see the zones or, as you put it, the dev’s “work”.

  • Not very wow-ish: I honestly don’t know what to say here, I pointed out above that WoW is not the first place where flying units turned up and if you really try to compare a dragon to a futuristic car, then I truly can’t help you.

  • To your last point: I’d rather have many different mounts flying around than another Rogue running around in the same T-mog, yes, That one was petty but you can’t really complain about a clown show if you are not being creative in any way.

The next time you do a Pro/con list, try not to be so petty and biased that you make up Taurencrap to fill out a list in your favour.

And my last words on this will be: Don’t like it? Just don’t fly, don’t force your desire/opinion on others.

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It is hard to make a pros and cons list if you’re immediately disregarding the points that many posters have made throughout this very long thread.

The world pvp argument is legitimate, as zones without flying (such as Isle of Quel’danas) typically see more sporadic world pvp. I think people may have this notion that world pvp has to be “epic”. Typically, it starts with smaller skirmishes than then garner more attention until one side is forced to retreat from the area. This can happen in areas with flying as well, but in my experience it is less likely to do so. Also, world pvp is different from battlegrounds and arenas in the sense that it is less restricted; it’s kind of the wild west of pvp, anything goes. Plus, the looming threat of being pounced by enemy players keeps the world somewhat exciting. Don’t conflate world pvp with instanced pvp.

Ruining immersion and ruining the devs work kind of go hand-in-hand, though “ruin” is perhaps a bit exaggerated. Like I said in an earlier post, the Timeless Isle would not have been as fun if flying mounts weren’t disabled. If you agree, then there must be some truth to flying mounts undermining certain aspects of the world’s design.

It was when we had PVP only servers and now we dont its your choice to turn on PVP but you want to take away our choice to fly .

Ruins mine not being able to fly and soar into the sky as a druid and see the lay of the land by air ,maybe they should remove underwater mounts and make us swim everywhere you think ?

But you as always cherry pick the rest of MoP you could fly in right from max level .

I’m not cherrypicking, I’m trying to prove a point. My argument is that the Timeless Isle would not be as fun if flying wasn’t disabled. The rest of Pandaria is not really relevant to the argument as you could fly there. Flying in the rest of Pandaria has no bearing on the fun-factor of the non-flying on the Timeless Isle.

More interesting, in my opinion, is to try and dissect the reason as to why the Timeless Isle wouldn’t be as fun without flying. Because there is an answer, and that answer is not “it’s fun because you could fly everywhere else on the continent.”

Oh ofc it isnt to you Miss Cherrypicker

Fun for a few days the lack of dailies was a major problem and once chest/treasure were done it was only visited to do weekly world boss for tier .

I didnt wake up in the morning and think OMG YES YES “shudder” i must visit timeless isle today .

Love how also yet again you skipped about pvp and your view that is revelent when in mine it isnt .

now we have warmode, cant they allow flying in ALL areas its currently not allowed, IF you dont have WM on. that way, world pvp is not effected. after all, the only reason why we’re visiting anything that isn’t BfA content is for some sort of grind.

There wasn’t much to comment on, to be honest. I still manage to do a bit of world pvp. I always play with warmode on. I don’t see this “death of world pvp” that everyone else does. In fact, the only time I’ve teamed up and communicated with people in the actual world it has been due to world pvp. But I also play on Ravenholdt (an old rp-pvp server) which is clustered with other old rp-pvp servers, which may be a reason as to why I still experience it. The wpvp mentality might live on in the playerbase on those servers.

I actually liked the lack of dailies. I tried to explore every nook and cranny of that Isle and I would continue to do so even when the gear that dropped wasn’t really worth anything to me. I guess we appreciate different things :wink: (which is fairly obvious to anyone who reads this thread).

How is it cherrypicking? We could talk about the Klaxxi and how those dailies were really boring in comparison to both the Isle of Thunder and the Timeless Isle, but I don’t think flying was responsible for that even though it was a zone where you could fly. I just didn’t like the way they were designed, like the modern world quests. On the flip side, I did enjoy the Tillers daily missions, not because their design was exciting but rather because the narrative was so damn lovable, and it was fun to see the farm evolve and build relationships with the pandas. It was the best (and only) facebook game I’ve ever played.

However, I wanted to set my sights on Timeless Isle because that zone in particular stands out. It had a very different design that simply would not work with flying and I’m asking why.

But you had to use the birds there if you wanted to get to rares/treasure’s nothing exciteing being sat on that back of one of those for 10mins it was so slow and no immersion there imho .

The dailies in MoP were the only bad point of the whole expac everyone agree’s on that .

The point iam making is i dont mind no flying zones within current content but atleast let every other area in new content be a fly zone .

Argus was a disgusting place in my view and a piss take to the general player. We just got flying and then they take it away the dev’s in my view have no clue at all and Ion i cant say what i want about him without being banned.

I never found any of the Timeless Isle fun. It was a grindy chore with no proper hub or daily quests.

Now the Isle of Thunder, that was fun (and had no flying). I still think the whole of Kul Tiras and Zandalar should have flying. I’m not keen on Argus Mk II so I’m hoping we get flying when the new area unlocks. Getting to fly then having it taken away isn’t fun. Pandaria was a different model. We flew from max level. It was no hardship having the odd zone where flying wasn’t possible.

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GZ on 7k ding you :sparkling_heart::sparkling_heart::sparkling_heart::sparkling_heart::hugs::hugs::sparkling_heart::sparkling_heart::sparkling_heart::sparkling_heart:

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Oh wow, I really talk too much :laughing:

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Nope you are (tell you when we speak next as its not suitable for forums lol):kissing_heart:

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I don’t think it would have changed much about timeless isle, anyone wanting to kill rares do the quests collect the treasures and so on, all would have to be landing to do so, and with timeless isle being so small as it is, there would be pvp

Btw not everyone liked timeless isle, dead factions did not have much fun being 1 vs 4-5+ on pvp realms, I knew a few that avoided it like the plague because of that.

timeless isle was extremely boring to me and absolutely not fun though
I do use WM, but I don’t care about WPvP… I only use it, because I was on a PvP server for a really long time and I don’t mind getting attacked every now and then… besides… if you say flying ruins PvP… I ask you, where are the “epic” PvP battle at the moment?
I rarely even get attacked, if I see an Alliance player, I see him running past me, without even taking notice, that I am there… same goes for me… Everyone just wants to do their daily chores and be done with it… there is no time to deal with other players, if you can get a 10/30% bonus from doing WQ’s
Flying is not even here yet, and the dailies are already chores if anything… epic battles are not happening either… so flying doesn’t ruin WPvP
soaring through the sky is fun
seeing the beautiful world from above is fun
navigating through mazes and running on rails is NOT fun

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That’s… exactly the problem though. Flying point to point and killing rares isn’t fun. It wasn’t killing rares that was the main appeal for the Timeless Isle; it was the exploration, the traversal. A treasure chest might require you to walk on a rope and risk falling down. If you fell down you couldn’t just immediately fly up. If you could, then what would be the point?

That is not really an argument for or against flying. It’s really hard to make a point come across here, I feel, because the moment there is some validity to a point you merely brush it off and say “well, not everyone liked it.” There’s another forum thread going right now where people proclaim their love for MoP and to me it seems a lot of people enjoyed the Timeless Isle. Not being able to fly on the Timeless Isle was very much intended and had a huge impact on that particular zone.

What I said was:

Most world pvp isn’t “epic,” that was my point. Skirmishes are world pvp as well. I actually prefer smaller skirmishes than large scale battles, though the latter can be enjoyable as well, and I have experienced large scale battles in BfA. Not very often, and perhaps not at the same scale as the old Tarren Mill, but it still happens.

Well, that’s on you then, isn’t it? Someone has to be the aggressor and in wpvp there is very little reason to be the aggressor. The people who do world pvp mainly do it for fun. That has been the case in the past at least, world pvp has rarely ever been rewarded. It was one of the things that generated the most smack-talk on the server forums. It built a community, and it was pretty cool to be a part of that community. In fact, I think server sharding has been a huge detriment to this aspect of community-building, but I digress.

You call the daily quests “chores”. There is “no time to deal with other players”. Is that really the attitude a developer wants their customers to have in an MMORPG? Blizzard have utterly failed to create repeatable content that is interesting, and flying won’t fix that. It will just make the content more accessible so that you can do more of it, but in your words you don’t really seem to appreciate the content either. I prefer quality over quantity, myself.

Yes, well, if you lot want to use “not everyone think x is fun” as an argument then I’ll do too. I don’t think flying is fun. I do not get the experience of soaring through the sky, not in this game. Also, there is nothing inherently wrong about navigating mazes and running on rails. Some of the best games ever created are all about navigating mazes and running on rails. Half-life, for instance. That game is great! You can play Half-life and use a cheat code called “noclip” which allows you to fly and run through walls, completely negating the “maze.” However, if your maze is so poorly designed that players start to prefer using that cheat code, perhaps there is something really wrong with the design of your game.

it was an argument that timeless isle might not be as funny as you thought, btw the times I dropped down and should get back up was not fun

all im saying is I believe it would have been as much fun with flying as without

And I don’t think it had a huge impact on the zone as you think.

everytime I wanted to get to the red lake on mountain top, I went out to fatigue then fly high up and usede goblin glider to get there, you might think it is fun, I don’t

I had fun climbing that mountain all the way up to the red lake from the bottom with my Demon hunter, that is what I do for fun, it dosnt mean its the only thing i find fun :slight_smile: , it just means that i decide to not fly when i want to try something on the ground

when I want to get there asap, I don’t want to climb or ride a bird i cant control, I just want to get there fast, ‘fun/no flying’ is something I decide to do when I want, if i don’t want to fly

Flying is also fun for me, less options = less fun, sure I can fly in old expansions, but when im doing current content im forced to not fly

I liked MoP… it also had flying…

if we had flying, you could just choose not to fly, especially if you don’t think its fun, i don’t have that luxury when i cant choose