Delay flying until 9.0

Community General Discussion
537

I did High Mountain (spirit of echero mount) and Azsuna (a toy) archeology quests while i was still doing the story lines, which means i did those quests on ground mount, and i enjoyed it a lot. So, in order to do archeology, you don’t need flying. Except if you are way too fixated and obsessed with the reward.

Right now, i am doing world quests in BFA zones with my druid, and wherever i go, whenever i go, there are tons of people doing WQs, herbing, mining, wandering around for whatever reasons… but all the time i see tons of people. I still do Legion WQs, including Argus quests, and again, even in Argus where you can not fly, i see a good amount of people whenever i go there. ı rarely killed a WQ mob by myself only in Argus.

Skettis, Netherwing… etc aren’t about potential. Flying was given to everyone for a little gold, the %60 one at least. So those areas had the same status with everywhere else, afterall everyone can get to there once they are max level. You are trying to use those areas to justify your ‘‘i want to take this herb, i want to do archeology with aggro, i want to skip everything between point A and B to reach the reward’’. But as i said it has no relevance and such areas can not justify flying. If you want such areas exist, there can be. They can put some zones that can only be reached by flying, that includes some reputation grinds which rewards some mount or transmog… but they can make those grinds to be available to only those who completed pathfinder. See? Such areas will not justify flying in everywher and everytime. It will noy justify avoiding the rest of the world.

Devs are creating a world and you want to avoid it completely. They aren’t forcing you into anyting. And it has nothing to do with Blizzard being ‘‘SPITEFUL’’. Some people think flying is their birthright they inherited from their royal family, but Blizzard now treating flying as a reward for those completed the outdoor world and experienced the way devs designed it.

And that’s why we are against flying.

You say, flying wouldn’t be necessary if all areas were plain, no mobs, no daze, no aggro, no obstacles… nothing. But if the world was like that, i wouldn’t be against to flying either, because 1 - It doesn’t matter anymore since there is nothing, 2 - I wouldn’t even play that game.

And again you say, flying is needed because areas aren’t plain, there are mobs, daze, water, aggro… Ofcourse these will exist and ofcourse devs will want palyers to experience aggro, daze, fall damage, getting lost, mazes… etc. If not, what’s the reason?

You want devs to work and create a complex world, and then want to fly over it and avoid it like the plague. Or they should remove flying but give us a 2d, plain world instead? What a joke.

2 Likes
538

The most fairest ultimatum would be to disable flying in Warmode. You want bonus AP + Rep, toggle PVP and disable flying :clap:

1 Like
539

Warmode on=pvp server Warmode off=pve server
The thing is that now you can move freely between pve and pvp “servers”.

It makes no sense whatsoever to give that type of advantage to a player, based on the type of server he/she choosed to play. In my opinion there isnt even a bonus AP, (that probably is a small “tip”), for those who play with warmode on, but instead a penalization for those who dont play a mmo-rpg with two opposed factions without world pvp. The normal line of though is consider that if a player encounter its rival, they can engage in combat. “Oh we are in war, its a world of warcraft, and i found my enemy in the middle of the jungle, but some kind of supernatural force is preventing me to confront him/her”. C’mon… what type of rpg is that?

540

i dont actually know if you are arguing for flying or against at this point. i originally thought you were for it, but now i think you’re against it. you are confusing the issue a lot :s

i “completed” the outdoor world and experienced it as blizzard and the devs designed it back in september. that was EIGHT months ago. with flying possibly not available for ANOTHER six months or so! this could have been most of the expansion, all depending on if we get an 8.3 or not, although the way T&E have talked about 8.2, im presuming at this point a 8.3 is almost guaranteed?

and dont a lot of people do the majority of 111-120 through island or Freehold spamming now? no flying is especially painful for alts. them spamming islands or Freehold is not exploring outside very much now is it?

i dont know if anyone asked for flying in vanilla, but once we had it, it was here to stay. we know 3 facts from here on in:

  1. blizz never wanted flying again from 6.0 onward,
  2. blizz were forced to give it to us towards the end of WoD,
  3. flying has been fairly difficult to get at any sort of reasonable pace since it was reintroduced in 6.2. and if you didn’t do it while it was current, then you’re in for a painful slog.
    because of fact 3, i can only call blizz’s way of re-implementing flying in 6.2 and beyond spiteful. but like i said, thats just my personal opinion concluded from those 3 facts. although i am not alone in that opinion.

if anyone does not accept those 3 facts, then no progress in debate can be made between anyone on either side of the argument of flying, because you are ignoring the truth.

and just cause i dont want to constantly run through the world on foot doesn’t mean i dont like the art teams work. i have said many times before, and some people agree with me, the world looks so much more beautiful from above, cause you can see more of it. thats why i was so looking forward to flying on the loch modan damn at the end of WotLK, and was HUGELY disappointed when they destroyed it :frowning:

541

magic :stuck_out_tongue:

not really. while you can now turn it off in any rested zone (i dont think you could always do this? not sure), you still must ALWAYS go to org/sw to turn it on.

besides, most current wpvp seems to involve ganking lowbies, or huge groups going around hunting individuals or small groups. i dont know what wpvp was like on pvp servers as i never played one, so i honestly dont know what wpvp players would want. sometimes people just want to pick a herb, kill a boar or catch a fish. i presume this is the same on a pvp server or i would hate to see your AH’s back in the day.

542

I meant freely, in the sense of without a co$t.
You are compartmentalizing it, pvp servers mean play a faction that has an enemy faction, that has real players that can engage in combat with you, (an mmo-rpg). Ye, there was hardcore ganking somewhere in time, people farming being interrupted by someone else, people that get together to “hunt”, but lets be honest, we can put those kind of events in the rare doings jar. You probably should wake up that delightful warmode button one day, just to let those preconceptions go away, the interaction with the counterpart is fun and belongs to the core of this game.

1 Like
543

i was full time WM on until about a week after they increased the buff for alliance. while i know prior to that, alliance with WM on felt constantly ganked, but i have a wpvp code. i leave people alone as they are probably farming a wq or mats or something. i only engage if they have attacked me first, they are going to die anyway and i mayaswell get a tag, or there is an active battle going on between horde and alliance.

now, i know many people dont play by that code, but i do. and then the buff came and i couldn’t do ANYTHING cause i was being swamped by raids of alliance when i was on my own.

now, this may be just my bad luck with sharding, but anytime i had WM on as BOTH horde and alliance, there never seemed to be any allies anywhere, and always tons of the enemy. now, this is maybe just a sharding issue, but it has been enough that i turn WM off from 1-90 and 111+ on alts, and i rarely have it on on this rogue, though i currently have it on again cause there are some achieves that need it on.

i wonder actually… how much of peoples bad experience with WM is actually down SOLELY to bad sharding?

i fully agree. i love instanced pvp, and is possibly the only thing i ENJOY about the game atm.

544

What dungeons spammers have anything to do with pathfinder? If they spam dungeon, is it because pathfinder? People do this from 0 to 120, they even do it where they can fly, so what is your point?

1 - Not a fact. You don’t know their intention. Even if it was a fact, why does it matter? They want people not to fly over the content they created.
2 - Not a fact. Those subs numbers are just for people who want to feel like they achieved something. What i read is, subs started to drop in MoP, then WoD released those who quitted the game started to play again and then several months later they quitted back. So WoD quitters were people who already quitted during MoP but wanted to see the new expansion a bit.
3 - Yes. And? People experiencing the outworld map as devs intended, and in the end, they will gain flying which will give another kind of gameplay. So it is a win-win.

ı don’t know. I started to play 5 months ago, after 10 years break. I skipped all the maps and flew over all the zones until WoD zones, and then i stopped xp gain until i got Draenor pathfinder, only then i started to Legion zones and i have Legion pathfinder as well. Pathfinder is the reasons why i completed all WoD and Legion even they aren’t current, and it was fun. So it is not a painful slog for everyone.

545

I agree that pathfinder now is easier to get in WOD and Legion but when they first came out they were a long and painful slow grind, plus in Legion with Suramar being time gated, plus having to do both a raid and dungeon, it took forever to get it in Legion.

I am glad to say that I got both and I plan to get the upcoming pathfinder part 2 in BFA, but not having flying is not stretching out content when there is hardly any content to begin with in BFA.

546

im sorry, this is common knowledge!

im sorry, what? mop ended with about 8M. Wod on release went back to about 10M but quickly dropped to about 5.5M when they then said they would never be releasing sub numbers again. it could have dropped even lower after that, we dont know. im sorry, your math doesn’t add up. how are the 4.5M who left at start of WoD the same 2M who left during MoP?

flying from WoD to BfA is harder to get than it was TBC - MoP.
TBC - MoP bought for gold. available at once you hit level cap.
WoD - BfA not available for nearly a year into the expansion. requires pathfinder which usually involves a few tasks and reputation grind which cant be started till the patch flying is released in.

im sorry. you are just wrong. if you cant accept these 3 FACTS, then no one can have a balanced discussion with you on this topic. and note, if this is how you face this topic, then is this how you face all topics and facts?

well, there are exceptions to every rule. some people may like such things, but you are in the minority. especially when we come to alts. but even still, with both legion and WoD pathfinder, you could start working on it the moment you started that area, cause it was already available to you. you didn’t have to wait over a year each time to get flying. if you’ve only been playing 5 months, and already got both pathfinders, then you cant compare that to people who played through WoD and Legion.

the irony. i believe you said elsewhere you quit at end of WotLK? and are back only 5 months (BfA). so, why did you fly over all the Cata and MoP content? whats so special about WoD? especially as most people consider it the worst expansion yet? (BfA fighting for that title!)

1 Like
547

First of all, I have always been pro-flyer, just because I’ve never played this game without flying for a long period of time. I started to actively play back in WotLK. What I want to say, is that flying - one of two major reasons, why I bought BFA recently in preparation to release of 8.2. I usually need flying due to overcomplicated ground design, too much time wasted to get from point A to point B, overcomplicated navigation, due too overused combat/aggro, too high density of mobs, too high respawn rates, too hard mobs and due to forced PVP. In short - to compensate “hardcore” factors and make game more casual-friendly.

But what I want to say, is that design of at least Horde’s locations is much better, than back in Legion. Some mistakes, such as Highmountain and Stormheim, are fixed. Alliance locations are still bad though. Still too many mountains and too much water. May be it’s one of the reasons, why we have more Horde, than Alliance. And therefore currently I don’t feel, that flying is that critical for my gameplay. I even started to forget about it.

Therefore I wouldn’t need flying at all, if some problems would be fixed. Currently major one - is forced PVP flagging. Not even overcomplicated ground content design.

548

I’m pretty much anti flying… and before someone says “but you have flying mounts…” Well why whould I not have them? It’s a feature in the game so ofcourse me and pretty much every other anti flyer will use them. Do this invalidates any of our opinions? Not really, since you can use a feature while still disagreeing with it.

I’m of the opinion that flying should have been kept out of the game after WoD, but due to how Outland, Northrend and to some part Cataclysm are built so you basicly need flying to traverse the content, flying should be kept intact for this content. Which in turns means It can’t be removed.

Yes, flying does ruin alot of aspects of the game, but It can’t be removed at this point. Personally I whould at the very least hoped blizzard could have done the “Pathfinder system” on a patch by patch basis;

So when 8.1 came around Pathfinder one whould allowed flying in Zandalar and Kul Tiras. However Mechagon and Nazjatar whould had to wait untill 8.3(since they get introduced in 8.2) for flying to be unlocked. This whould had been more consistent as a approach. So if we get other new zones I’d also liked them to be none flying untill the patch after it… Then in the “next expansion pre patch”(Which whould be 9.0) they whould just remove the pathfinder requirements alltogheter, just to prevent a new WoD Pathfinder controversity.

The reasoning behind why I think this, are how players approach content. You simply fly land close to a point, interact/kill target then fly away again. This was a problem already back in TBC. Flying for me basicly feel like a cheat code… and it don’t really matter if the developers suck at making a nice enviroment or not. The principal still remains, you lift off then skip and land, regardless how much effort was put into the content.

Flying in this game are also super simplistic, you require no momentum, preparation and there’s no danger once you are up in the air(except net-o-matic’s which druids currently are immune to for some reason). You just mount up and hold down spacebar…

The design is horrible and it also get even worse when the world’s not designed for it. All enemies roam around in basicly 2D, while players manouver in 3D. To change this whould however never happend since it whould require alot of coding, so much blizzard whould never do it.

However we instead see zones now adays with a ton of buildings, caves and instanced content due to how flying ruins the zones just to acctually “force players” to even interact with the content in the game. This cause another grievance, where slow classes such as priests and DK’s instead have to run even more on foot(rather then on a equally speedy mount)… the pro flyers never think this far do they? :roll_eyes:

WoD was awesome for ground mounts, big open fields, fun and interactive mini games to get treasures etc. While caves was kept to a minimum most of the time. The world was for WoW’s standards a improvement over Pandaria and Cataclysm zones by a mile for explorers.

This was really noticeable in Legion when it feels like they had no world content at all except for WQ’s, which felt fine back then due to “new feature” flavors… Now we are in BfA when they suddenly have to dubble down on even more simple grinding. Sure there’s some exploration achives… but most world content are simply; Grind X for hours.

Personally I see this as a result of developers preparing the world for flying, since they will need something that keeps people on the ground. I wonder how the world whould had developed if flying had been cut entierly in WoD. Whould we see more world content similar to other no flying areas already present in the game? Areas which acctually have some developer love put into them.

Anyhow… Since flying now is in the game and have been for a long time. We just have to deal with it regardless of it’s huge flaws. Do I wish it had been removed? Yes. Whould I mind if it never returned? No. But we all knew it was coming at a point or another, now if we could at the very least ask for some consistency…

I wish the new 8.2 zones whould be none flying untill 8.3, since these zones are both better designed for ground mounts and many of the zones core features are best achieved on a equal playing field. PvP objectives in Nazjatar, Treasure hunting/sensing and even rare hunting in Nazjatar are all better experienced on the ground.

Events in Mechagon are also one of those features that will meet the same sort of issues as Tanaan Jungle elites/world bosses did. When half the population can fly, grounded people will fall even further behind since they won’t be able to travel quick enought.

If people had a whole patch cycle to get their reputations in order alot of the upcoming 8.2 features whould be more consistent.

2 Likes
550

No flying until second major patch in an expansion.

Flying after that.

Sounds like a good compromise to me. I personally got tired of BfA zones after five or so months of doing them. I have experienced the content and the zones. Now I wish to experience them from the air. :slight_smile:

Oh, and flying in Nazjatar and Mechagon after I have done everything in them, from reputations to treasure hunting and exploration? Perfectly reasonable as well. :smile:

Best part? It is account-wide! Thank you Blizzard for this compromise! :heart:

1 Like
551

I’m a pro-flyer myself. I love the way it makes it more fun to explore. it also makes it a lot more fun to do Pet Battles, Archeology, Gathering. I’ll only start with those as soon as flying is released.
I would rather they have us unlock flying as soon as you have done a pathfinder on your main character at max. level. Or make it cost a few thousand gold again, fine also.
The thing that bugs me the most is that a lot of the arguments used against flying are just as valid to use against LFG/LFR/Arena and BG queue’s and Groupfinder as a whole. But for some reason people want those. Talking about breaking immersion or ruining WPvP, just staying in your capital waiting for your Dungeon or queue to pop is immersive am i right?
People should just gather a group in a city and travel to the relevant content they want to do. But nooo, that takes way too much time. Socialize to make a group, way to much work, just give easymode queueing :slight_smile:
it’s as simple as people mentioned in this thread multiple times, if you want to fly, go fly, if you don’t then don’t. It’s optional!

552

No your advantage with a flying mount is higher speed and vertical mobility you trade that for the ability to attack otherwise its not a meaningful tradeoff which it should be. Ofc flying would be limited to WM only and not gated behind repgrind.

553

Okay. Let’s say you get your wish. Hurray! More people to PvP, right?
No, not really. What you are asking for is to make it more of a hassle to get to what the players would actually want to be doing; the number of people who sightsee the same areas for months are few and far in between. People stood in garrisons not because it provided all there was to do - if you wanted to get competitive stuff, you still had to go outside - but because there wasn’t that much stuff outside the garrison to do that would be worth the hassle.
Now, what you are asking for is that people are not to be given a convenient way of getting to stuff they want to do. In turn, increasing the amount of “hassle” needed to go through to do stuff. I already farmed myself to HoA lvl50 on my main, and to 40+ on several alts. I did a LOT of WQs in all the zones. I explored them for pretty much everything that caught my fancy.
So, what incentive do you think I and other players like me will have if we are to be faced with the same stuff again and again, for further months to come? I fought the mobs, rare and ordinary. I heard every single “player, you have to help us, now!” guilt trip from a random NPC so many times I can quote some of them. There simply isn’t any fun that would stem from doing it all again and again and again. Why should I?
Keep in mind, WoW is a game, not a job. If I am stuck with going to Drustvar just so I can hear about witches again, with the reason for doing so being a few dozen war resources and a few dozen gold, I won’t go to Drustvar. I could do variations of that for every single zone. The question I asked above is basically me asking “What incentive will you give me so that I further play this game?”
If what you want is wPvP, I have some bad news for you. Do you remember the Shrines in MoP? How close they were together? Yeah, me too.
The epic PvP battles between them, especially after the Siege of Orgrimmar placed a significant landmark between them for both player factions for them to meet? I don’t really do, no. I didn’t play on a PvP realm, but I did go with enough groups that had a PvP-realm leader that I could check the Vale of Eternal Blossoms daily. I never saw people wPvPing, even though large number of them were literally a stone’s throw away. wPvP has been pretty much dead for ages now. Making it less convenient to go to what people want to do is not going to ressurect it. Not when Warmode didn’t really do it.
There is further counter-argument to “ban flying”. ESO and GW2 both have teleportation to multiple wayshrines in pretty much every zone. Considering that it’s instant travel over which you never see the player (and hence, can’t interact with them), that should lead the every single zone being completely, utterly dead, right?
Well, result is pretty different. If you want to do anchors in ESO, unless you pick one REALLY badly positioned, you will never do so alone; in fact, if you pick the right one, you end up with a large swarm of players. If you want to do a chain of events in GW2 (especially the newer ones, that include large scale chain), you will frequently find a swarm of players working on them. Both ESO and GW2 have far fewer number of players, yet I see player participation in world activities far higher than I see in WoW. It’s not just about sharding - I’ve seen loads of people in a small town in Jade Forest yesterday, on an RP event - more than I saw pretty much anywhere, so sharding is not the reason.
I would say, and it may be just my subjective observation, but it would appear that the less “hassle” there is to get through to do what a player actually is after, the more likely it is that they will do it. I don’t see many people even right outside Boralus, and I am on a high population realm. I almost never see more than a few (<5) doing a WQ.
Why do you think I will see more people in the world if there isn’t a convenient way to get to what people want to do?

Mind you, this is after months of an expansion. No flying at the start is perfectly fine, as there is a world to explore. After several months, that no longer applies.

554

When flying comes it will allow me to level my alts faster. Gotta admit bro you make a decent argument, but truth be told i have run from.one edge of this world to the other, i have repeated so many crappy world quests that reward me nothing useful to grind rep im sick of the travelling and hardly play now waiting for 8.2. When i can fly i have 10 toons to level all the professions to llaybwith and more content. If theres no flying i will probably cancel my sub until 9.0.
Yep im that bored with WoW without flying you could almpst accuse me if being lazy.

555

Should just remove flying all together

556

1 - I think it is a common delusion, we can’t know their intention. But as i said, even they actually wanted to get rid of flying, it doesn’t matter, because right now you can’t fly are you? So they basically removed flying.

2 - What i see is MoP ended with 6.8m, then WoD started with 10m ended up with 5.5m.

Reasons to that;

People were bored. I and almost all of my guild and other people i know quitted in the end of WoTLK and it was only because we played the game for far too long and it was enough for us. This ‘‘enough for me’’ was MoP for some other people and for some other poeple it was WoD. People get bored of things eventually, it is normal.

I and most of my friends also returned to gmae in Cataclysm and played like 2 months just to see the new content a bit, then we quitted the game for good. That’s what happened to people in WoD.

WoD had no end game content is another reasons most people give + the game was mostly about the garrison.

Those who quitted jsut because pathfinder are probably a very small minority. That’s why i don’t care about subs number drops in WoD. You try to show those 5m people as if they quitted jsut because pathfinder, but certainly these peopel are a very small minority.

3 - I said yes i agree, getting flying is harder, at least for main chars. And so what? Devs make people to paly the content and in the end people get their flying. So it is a win-win. Which part you didn’t udnerstand?

I flew over all the expansions because i could fly. I stopped in WoD zones because pathfinder was a reason for me to stay around and made me to experience WoD zones. So not flying is what special about WoD.

If MoP had pathfinder, i certainly stopped xp and would do all the story lines there as well.

557

I don’t know, maybe it was for you. But BFA is current at the moment, and i don’t think rep gain, gameplay, being dazed, trying to avoid mobs, daily limits… etc are painful things. I am not gridnding any reputatiton or anything right now, i am simply playing the game and things (items, reputation) are coming slowly, in fact they are coming very fast.