I don’t think it was ever positioned as purely casual. It’s more aimed at providing an alternative to dungeons and raids for players who cannot get a regular 5 man group (and don’t want to PUG), or who prefer to play mainly solo - which still provides meaningful difficulty and gear progression.
Delves do offer lower level tiers (1-3) which are aimed at players who prefer to play at lowe difficulty levels while still scaling up for those who want better gear or more of a challenge.
While I don’t think the key system will be a bad as the launch version of Horrific Visions or the Zsekera Vaults - (it’s closer to the final version of Horrific Visions after we could buy vessels from the vendor they added) I do agree that it’s still a bad decision by the developers which will harm the overall success of the feature.
(As an aside one of the later renown rewards will be the ability to buy keys from a vendor)
It seems to have been a pattern with these attempts to add alternatives to the “big 3” pillars that they end up as good ideas that are let down by flaws in reward design, and it mystifies me that continue to fail to learn the full lessons of those past events.
Given that delves will contribute to great vault progression I don’t understand why they have not followed the proven (over multiple expansions) approach of M+ where the vault is used to throttle the rate we can get the best rewards and just allow the delves to always have a chance of having a lower tier of reward.
IMO the delves would be substantially better without the key system - and with the death counter simply being a requirement to unlock the next level up.
Does the Death Count apply to all levels of Delves?
If they kick in at Level 10 or something then it’s maybe ok(ish).
But there are people who (for many reasons, laziness nor malice are not among them) aren’t good at games.
To the average (or above) player they won’t even notice the Death Count so it might as well not be there.
To the below average player they will just be a frustration and off-putting feature.
Apart from the story, Delves was about the only feature of TWW that intrigued me. But my current intention is to not bother with TWW. I’m still wrestling internally on this though. I could probably muddle my way through the story but is this enough to embark on a whole expansion? I did not enjoy the timed events of DF and I suspect TWW will be similar to Researchers, Rifts, Superblooms, Siege or whatever. So if I do play TWW I will do the story and then go back to farming Dragon Soul for no blazing drakes.
I am sure I will enjoy the story but if delves aren’t fun, I’m not doing them. If the end game stuff isn’t fun, I’m not doing it. Same as in Shadowlands, I just stopped playing tbh.
A boy with no friends to play football with gets all excited when he sees an advert in his paper advertising a new facility for people of any skill level or timeframes to play on a miniature football ground for as long as he wants, but the entrance fee is 2 quid.
Picking up his battered old Mitre delta with some leather patches missing he rushes down with his two pounds and waits in the queue.
As he is standing in the queue a Bentley pulls up and the chauffeur opens the rear door and a professional football player leaps out talking on his cell phone to his manager about how he has found a place he can do extra training in while getting some great exposure for him and how benovelent he is to the local community encouraging them to be just like him.
As they both enter the facility they see a sign which reads “Due to new management policy management have decided that people using this facility now have to achieve a certain “Goal Point” to be able to continue playing. Due to recommendations from the superstar who very graciously joined our little venture, we will be introducing a difficulty curve and a “Goal point” system where the amount of goals you score allows you to progress. failure to score a goal will accumulate and you will be required to leave until tomorrow. We hope this will encourage you to be just as good as the professional.”
After 5 minutes, the professional has blasted through the course and gone back to his proper training ground having felt good about himself blasting through very easy for his skill level content.
The young lad, having played his heart out amongst training dummies springing from nowhere and the dummy goalkeeper keeps stopping his shots, sighs, picks up his ball and goes home and does something else.
Yeah, and it’s been like this since probably BFA for me. In BFA I found Pet Battles. I did some stuff on Mechagon Island and some on Najzatar but neither kept me engaged very long. I did not like the Black Empire stuff, arming currencies to do visions was not for me.
Shadowlands I did very little of its end game either, farming Anima (when they role played that drought so hard, especially early on) killed my enthusiasm to engage with those systems.
DF those timed events were just not fun either.
I’ve not heard much about world content (apart from Delves which have to be a Challenge, Insert FUN DETECTED meme here) is about the only thing I’ve heard about.
So I’ve mostly been doing old expansions for mogs and mounts and achievements. hit a bit of a wall with raids in Tomb of Sergaras as the layout is too confusing so I can’t find my way around. So I’m not sure even old content can sustain me much longer. BFA raids aren’t easy either from what I’ve read. And so many Glory achievements in recent expansion are non-soloable from what I’ve read too.
With just focusing on Nim, I shall probably be able to do it and maybe enjoy some stuff with friends but I cba with alts. They just exist for collection purposes of prior expansions. A few weeks in and I get very bored of it anyway.
Last time I enjoyed playing alts was Legion with the Order Hall campaigns and class mounts.
Since then we’ve have campaigns with 3 or 4 leveling zones. Fine for a single character, repetitive on alts.
Pretty much this. Sometimes I will enjoy playing another class for a break but they always end up deleted. Since I want to keep them purely for collection reasons, maybe I can stop going on a purge! I just level them during timewalking now.
In the end if delves are too hard I will just ask Puny to boost me
But on principle I simply won’t trust the devs ever again.
bit late to it all but not a fan of the limitations
hell why not make us lose EXP on every death while we’re at it
This is the wrong path to take, equipment damage and time lost on your current progression. You dying is the punishment of your bad play/your lack of attention/your overestimating yourself/you underestimating the content/whatever reason, not a condition for which you should be punished after the fact.
Yes you can extend this logic to m+ death penalties and personally I have for a long time
It was billed as something for open world players which I think is pretty much what most people consider part of the casual player base. Tah linked the presentation much earlier in this discussion.
I think the keys and the death cap are a mistake if that is their target audience. If this was just more content to complete with raid, m plus etc then fine stick all those limitations in that are set to punish failure in competitive play.
I feel it was mis sold. I can totally sympathise with the casual player base who thought they were finally getting something that would scale in difficulty and give them something to do other than events in the open world.
lets not pretend this game is hard by any means.
if you cannot finish basic content it is porpably time to do something else.
this game has never been easier and least time consuming to get the highest rewards than now.
if you design content around people that are only autoattacking and face tanking anything without their keyboard and mouse plugged in, then the complete game will be crap.
meanwhile seeing people in lfr doing 20k dps and complaining lfr is too hard.
just pluggin your hardware already. I dont even know how you passed the login screen. Probably then people who play hunters and die 50 times during leveling.
did people complain super mario should be so easy everyone can finish it?
Theyre not worth the effort. Not too surprising when you take onto account the metaphor I used shot over their head quicker than Superman needing a pee.
Id hug them but being such a sweaty tryhard they’d shoot out of my arms and impale themselves in the roof.
We could always get a laugh listening to their muffled cries and watching their legs dangling in the air blaming lfr and hunters.
Oh and for added zest…
Ive finished Super Mario.
A very long time ago.
Comparing Mario to WoW in difficulty terms is like comparing a tank to an ice cube. The little Italian dude laughs as the ice cube melts before he even gets there.
That was tuned across all difficulties. I don’t think you can really count one boss being hard and needing tuning as people complaining about LFR on the whole.
This is how the MinMaxer elitists view us plebs.
Any feedback we give that isn’t “YAAAAAY!!! a death count” = “Give me free Stuff”
These players try some content in their Mythich Raid geam, with 250,000g worth of gems, enchants and flasks. And say it only took me 3 goes to finish that, too easy. Make it harder. Ignore those plebby whiners who don’t deserve content as they don’t even have AotC this season.
