Premade groups are a whole different story to pugs. There is no communication in pug groups and you have to rely on yourself to silence.
That would probably be me. As, like Barry, I’m not a fan of the old Metamorphosis.
However unlike Barry I’m not a big fan of the current Demonology either and would not be sad to see it change. It’s frustrating to play at lower haste levels, as having to move ruins any kind of setup you did for the tyrant. Most of the Demo players used as examples tend to be well geared and past the haste barrier (which seems to be around 40% haste).
so your complaining about a spec being bad when you play in pugs meaning that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage and making everything more difficult for yourself to begin with,
just find a group, its not difficult to get into a guild that matches your schedule and find a dungeon group with that, now is the best time to do it ready for next expansion.
I don’t want to be in a guild. I want all 3 of my specs to be viable in all content, no matter who I am playing with. Giving me examples of over geared people playing with other people to justify the state of the spec is silly. If I can play other specs in pugs, then I should also play demonolgy without being at a disadvantage.
but the complain you have about the communication being needed isnt a problem for demonology really, its a problem with the pugs, demonology is perfectly viable in dungeons, unless you play in pugs, so demonology isnt the problem there.
I can’t believe you are pumping out so many excuses against a baseline silence. Truly remarkable.
there is a big difference between an excuse and a reason,
you are claiming that a spec is not viable even though there is plenty of evidence to say the exact oposite and keep claming different bullsh*t things because you just cant accept that you are wrong,
its part of the problem with the community of this game now a days, if something isnt the “meta” pick its basically useless, which is not the case, at all.
i fully understand as i have said repeatedly that destruction is a better spec in most cases that demo, but where all PvE content is concerned demonology is perfectly viable and usable in all content,
i understand it leaves something to be desired in PvP but i cant speak to that, because regardless of what changes they make PvP will never be balanced,
This post is about both PvP and PvE, yet you keep tossing PvP at the side. Learn to read or don’t comment at all please. The lack of silence will always put demonolgy at a disadvantage against every other DPS spec in m+. That’s a fact, and you can tell all about your favourite streamers who did a +25 with demonolgy, because that is not relevant at all, as I pointed out previously .
You said previously you don’t even play the spec, frankly I don’t even know what you are even doing here, except moving the goal post of the argument constantly. There’s no point trying to have a conversation with you, and I’m going to leave it that.
im not just putting PvP to the side, i dont do PvP so i cant speak to it because its something i dont know anything about, so it would be idiotic for me to starting throwing around opinions about it.
i never said that i dont play the spec, i do play it, i might not play it as often as the other 2 but thats mainly down to the fights in the raids being better suited to the other specs.
all im trying to do is help people to understand that a spec not being the best option doesnt mean its unviable, i mean if it was in the same kinda state as sub rogue currently is or windwalker monk in terms of damage then i would be fine with it getting some changes and what not, but the fact of the matter is that the spec is fine, its viable for most content, and for some reason people seem to think that them not liking the playstyle of the spec means no one can play it and its unviable, which is just incorrect.
Look, it is not about the spec being not viable enough why people want changes. Demo is certainly viable in PVE. PvP is a different topic on which I can’t make any statement.
What people want is a Spec that feel good when playing.
Currently we are a 2 minute burst window summoner and not a Master Summoner of Demons.
People and me want to be able to use any demon in the repertoire of Demo. We want meaningful talent choices and Cooldowns.
We want Instant spells (Tyrant, HoG, maybe dogs baseline), as we currently have exactly one summon that is not bound by cast time, that is Grimoire: Felguard … a talent.
I don’t believe all Demos here want to be the top DPS spec, what Demo possiblky could be. We just want a spec that has Synergies and a Plan … what it currently not has.
Only one covenant ability has any synergy with our spells, but non has any impact on our demons.
As for my personal opinion of Demo-WL:
I like the idea of summoning hordes of small imps to empower our spells, but currently it is not executed like that.
The talent [Sacrificed Souls] does go into the right direction, but i would prefer it goes even further.
For example reducing the power cost of the Imp Firebolt, so that they can stay around longer and then it should have an power amp for HoG and Demon Bolt, scratch Shadow Bolt, imho.
But so far Blizz don’t seem to have a clear direction for the spec and that is a real shame.
It is very strick and obejective oppinion when they say why the dislike it. People dislike current demo for a reason, wiil it be a low damage, hardcast nature, vulnerability of the spec to CCs, predictability of the spec, Low PvP utility, lack of interrupts, Pet AI, Pet design(gameplay). When people complain and name their issues - this is objective opinion. If i said “demo is the trash” it would have been a subjective opinion, but when i say "demo is a trash, and here is why [Insert any reason from above] - this is objective opinion.
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considering that the majority of the people that complain just say they dont like it and dont give any specific reasons for it, its a subjective opinion if you give more information then sure its more objective, but thats very rare
Expansion delayed, let’s hope this means some changes in the right direction.
Maybe meta demo?!? One can only hope but I already happy with Affliction. Tested today the NF/ID build. Was really happy to see that the covenant are not so game deciding as I thought.
Demo would be a good spec in PvE if it had istant Tyrant, and if shadowbolt did more than nominal damage, and if it had something to do while moving, and if tyrant wasn’t punished by target moving slightly away, and if it had any meangiful AOE…
Once more, the fact that sjeletyven CAN do it doesn’t mean that the spec is in good shape. The fact that the spec relies on casting out of range/los imps to artificially inflate tyrant, that it doesn’t have a interrupt/silence, and that it’s low mobility are all big problems that other classes (not specs: classes) don’t have.
The point is: Demonology has a LOT of issues that other classes don’t have to deal with, and only one is being addressed to (interrupts) while other problems are being added (like the fact that since we’ll turn back to low haste, the spec will become even less mobile, or the longer demon summoning cast time).
In exchange for this, it has only small upsides (we are ranged and as such suffer less from melee-only mechanics, which nowaday are less and less, and we have a better control of our threat… which has not been a problem since TBC).
Let’s be honest, no matter what a top tier player can do with a demolock on their hands, the state of the spec is currently poor, to say the least. The problem doesn’t lie with WL as a whole, it lies with demo specifically. Last season we saw destrolocks dominating the arena, while of course lacking in some PvE elements - that’s how it just has to be, one cannot have the whole pie to themselves. Demolock was kind of nice in very narrowed down PvE content - barely comparable to other classes or WL specs. Now affliction is coming back stronger in SL as it seems.
But where is demo going again? Where has demo been going for quite a while now. There is no reason to pick a demolock in a dungeon or PvP run over the most of DPS classes. It’s one thing struggling to compete with the meta, and another thing being thrown at the pit for eternity. It’s a spec with so much potential, and huge RPG element (which is sought after by Blizz as we see), yet it’s not making any of it.
I will not talk about numbers and mechanics, I will only give my views on Blizzard’s stance towards the spec, and that is: they have no idea what to do with demolock, we all had this suspicion, yet it became so clear when they added Ritual of Doom. Don’t get me wrong, when I saw it I giggled out of joy - but let’s be honest, it’s only a flavor taken from classic, due to the whole “thing” that classic reviews against retail have created. Blizz struggles with balancing “normal” spells and rotations, how will they balance a 3-min cast spell, which will require a resurrection afterwards, and will need to bring back a better result than the one of a 3-min damage rotation (OF A WHOLE PARTY, since everyone is being part of this 3-min afk session) without the Doomguard. It’s just not going to happen, it will either be ridiculously overpowered or just a fanservice. However this may mostly be true in M+, which is the end-game content that Blizz has been most focusing on - maybe in other raids or circumstances the Ritual will actually take place, yet considering the “OP or trash” scenario, I assume it won’t be applied anywhere. Again, I wouldn’t want it removed, it’s fun, I will definitely take the time and use it with my non-competitive friends, it’s awesome.
On another note, 6 second pet summon… This really made me question whether Blizz has actual developers testing while PvPing with each other. Ignore the other 2 specs that don’t rely or shouldn’t rely that much on their summon, why demolock though? It doesn’t even make sense from the RPG perspective - demolocks are the “summon masters” (cries in actual imp master with no improvement for 15 years), the only spec so close to demons, yet they have the same “powers” with the others? This change shows two things to me - either they thought that WL’s pet was OP, and there should be a cost to pay if one wanted to make use of it during PvP/E or they thought that WL are already doing good in their state by just using their spells to take down opponents, so a nerf on the pet was suitable. In either case, the demolock is again not taken into account - because the demolock is the spec most depended on their pet, take away their ability to have it summoned and you are tossing them even deeper into the pit, as if they weren’t already deep enough, especially in PvP. It has been hard summoning at 1.9 sec, it’s almost impossible to summon at ~4.5 sec now, you just know that the arena strategy will just be kill the pet twice and you’re done, the demolock will be unable to make it, not because their whole existence is depended entirely on their pet, but because their powers out of it are so underwhelming, despite what they could have been. You can’t just take demolock’s pet, without giving anything for it.
What’s up with Blizz and demolocks anyway? At this points I just believe the developers have a serious issue not just with balancing numbers and rotations, but trying to do so through their “philosophy” of wanting to spread people in as many specs as possible. They said it years ago, when they wanted to remove everyone from playing demolock, the time when the big massacre started - yet how do you spread them when the thing you actually do is again destroying one spec over another. Last season it was destrolock, next season will be afflock, this is the same mistake over and over again. On another note Blizz knows that making demolocks strong will probably not help their marketing, as demolocks are probably to the most complicated playstyle side, compared to other specs and even other DPS classes - still they know that those who play demo will keep doing so because they love the class, have been loving it for years, so the population of the spec won’t get down to zero.
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That is what i think since Legion. They had such a good design in MoP. Then the fun dropped with Demon Bolt and in Legion they totally failed, since then they let the spec rot in darkness
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Agreed with Naze, MoP version…I hope blizzard listens now, as SL is delayed. There is hope.
I mean yes of course MoP was great for demolocks, maybe even too great. Let’s be fair, we want balance for every class, so demolock had to be tuned definitely. I don’t expect a MoP demolock to come back, ever, and I don’t even think it should. But neither should this situation keep up.
As far as i have seen most of the changes that were discussed are QoL things, like instant cast of a few spells and free choice of Demons, maybe a #warlockstable
Of course that could already improve our dps.