Erevien doesn’t realize whatever blizzard threw at people at that stage would cheer them up like crazy.It’s a expensive wow CGI trailer.And at that point of time, Slyvanas wasn’t as pushed down at our throats as she is recently.
Not to this extend.
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Funny, I could make a similar post about Anduin and the Alliance and that isn’t to rip on it. I genuinly feel the Horde has to be villainbatted time and again because Blizzard just can’t put the Alliance, and more specificly Anduin Wrynn, in a different light.
I think I do understand why Sylvanas Windrunner is one of the most populair and liked characters(and no it’s not her “assets”- that argument is laughable for most people).
She’s just the most developed character we have left, one other is Thrall, one other is…Nathanos Blightcaller.
Face it, the onus of this “vacuum” is on Blizzard’s writing team, and not on a fictional character.
Who was the other character that rivaled Sylvanas Windrunner in popularity…I believe it was Garrosh Hellscream, the other demonized warchief, that take it or leave it, actually was given a legitimate reason to start a war…sadly everything dropped into the shetter afterwards…because The Alliance couldn’t be seen as a force that was actually willing to do their own bad stuff in order to win and keep the Horde down.
Cairne did practically Nothing since WoW, except for running around at some special events- Icing on the cake, he got offed on a book most people haven’t and won’t read.
Vol’jin, another wasted character who atleast made some cameos in game, most of his characterization and action, once again in a book…then he gets killed off in Legion prologue.
Baine, well…pfff, lets just keep it simple, for everyones sake, most of his spotlight is from books, in game he either gets cut out or he gets painted as one of the most horrible persons to lead or even show his face, most of the time.
Thrall himself, Thrall was cool, then he became the “WorldShaman”, a boring bland superhero character that transcends the faction or w/e.
He also lost his ballz after that, he ditches the Horde a second time…amidst a fullscale Legion invasion and becomes emo, starting farming in Outland as it turns out and didn’t give a toss about his people or the Horde untill Saurfang comes to retrieve him, even then ge shows no scrupules in killing, or going to war with his own " brothers and sisters".
Then there is Lor’themar Theron, I suppose he had the most development after Thrall, Garrosh, Sylvanas or Nathanos…he atleast stands up for his people and stands for the Horde, so in all I find him not so bad off, depending on how Alliance chummy and compromising Blizzard intends to show him in game. I actually find him somewhat relatable, perhaps they’ll kill him off next.
The rest is minor fluff really, Gallywix was dubious from the beginning, however aside from him selling his own people into slavery…he seemed a good fit and a fun morally dubious character, now he’s replaced with Gazlowe the Union guy.
And he’ll probably end up getting killed one way or another.
So in all, Blizzard put all their writing into “superheroes”, first and foremost, leaving most races(Horde or Alliance) really shallow and bland, because it seems certain characters are ment to represent their race…and they focused on only two or three…which for the Horde means we have practically zero ground or direction left.
I’m starting to see how that looks when more and more stuff comes out about Shadowlands in which, yet again, the Horde have almost zero presence, I suppose as expected.
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Good or bad it does not matter, it is still dedicated to Sylvanas and her journey. Bad PR is still a PR.
And another thing - you can’t satisfy every Sylvanas fan and game developers should be looking too much into it, in regards of storytelling and what they see fit.
Lately all the expansions have been a fan service as it seems Blizzard is just giving the community the most requested concepts, with their own twists…
The only good thing that could have come out of this was separating Forsaken from Sylvanas, who has been all defining aspect of the race. But yet still the Calia direction isn’t pretty either…
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wait isn’t she currently the most disliked lore character…most people seem to be very bored with her and her ‘‘arc’’.Just check Shadowlands cinematic trailer.
44k+ dislikes.Pheww.This is more dislikes then all other wow trailer’s dislikes combined.
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Many people, myself included, disliked said trailer because it represented yet another nail in the coffin for a character that had been sacrificed for the sake of plot.
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This is what I wanted to see after MoP. Vol’jin becoming Warchief was the perfect fit. What we instead got was a hot mess of an expansion that included time travel and Orcs, and it revolved largely around Thrall.
I feel the same. I’ve argued for this before, but I think BFA would have been more interesting if it had been the Alliance that struck the first blow. On paper it seems like the Alliance is the stronger out of the two factions (it’s certainly insinuated as much at the end of MoP), and the Alliance is also the faction that has lost more to the Horde than the other way around. Gilneas, Ashenvale, Theramore… the Alliance races have a very good reason to be upset, and they have a strong case for war.
And here’s the perfect bit: Anduin is a natural diplomat. Going to war goes against his character. It creates a very interesting conundrum where he has to either stand up for his own beliefs or appease the factions that together creates his Alliance.
Varian’s death served a narrative purpose. Vol’jin’s death… I really don’t know. From a narrative perspective, what did Blizzard gain by killing him? I can’t really come up with anything. Sylvanas was an odd fit from the get-go. Sylvanas was an awesome character, sort of an unknown element within the Horde. Deception was her game. And she becomes Warchief? And lo and behold, apparently she didn’t care about the Horde, what a shocker.
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This basically. I find it weird to blame a fictional character for the bad writing of an entire expansion.
In all, said character should be considered another victim of it. You’d have a hard time finding people that actually like how Blizzard trashed the entirety of Sylvanas arch in BfA (while also retconing her past). Having the spotlight under those terms, is worse than being ignored.
It would be like blaming Vol’jin for getting himself killed by some random demon, and naive enough to be duped by Mueh’zala to name Sylvanas as Warchief.
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I’m really not sure Anduin is all-encompassing as you’re making him out to be.
Of course in the Alliance he’s basically the blue emperor hogging the spotlight (We still don’t know why or how he’s High King), but I don’t feel like everything is his plan and every plot has to be diverted to shine a light on him, and he has to be included in everything the way it is with Sylvanas; Ny’alotha, Nazjatar, Xal’atath, 8.1 Darkshore, to name a few. (Especially in those first two she was utterly unnecessary)
But I do agree he still takes too much of it. Especially when they had to include him in Saurfang’s arc to become his moral compass.
Like with everything.
But Sylvanas herself is a narrative expedient, she’s a plot device that Blizzard has been overusing since the start of Legion.
I am tired.
The World of Warcraft is larger than Sylvanas Windrunner.
Not sure about this either.
I do not think this is a faction debate, would rather not have it turn into one.
My background on the forums may be blue but I’ve played both factions for years.
It’s funny, because not too many months ago I was the one taking your stance when Horde posters (you included) were asking for Malfurion to be killed off because of the ‘power imbalance’, while I argued it was the writers’ fault for mishandling the power discrepancy.
So you know, it’s not like I’m on an opposite party to you. We’re on the same page here.
Though you seem to have your biases.
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Keep in mind, that appart from trailers in BFA the most spot light goes for Jaina. 
Thank you for your vague polarising comment.
I don’t think you completely understood my point;
Anduin = The Humans of Stormwind now, or basicly more or less so, there is no opposition, same as Bland Bloodhoof = Tauren.
Anduin can do no wrong, his holy bones prevent him from doing so, and he will Always be in the right, even if he makes mistakes. Ergo Humans are basicly his drones, ergo the Alliance is basicly his hivemind, yeah sure, you have some voices of opposition…Tyrande….and ehm,well Tyrande. But basicly the Alliance is still the morally superior white knight, and since Blizzard feels it safer that way, any conflict must then come from the Horde, demonizing and villainbatting the next target Horde character. For those things he doesn’t even need to be front and center, it’s just how it is and has been for years now.
My point is, Calevarn….No, it isn’t, the world isn’t larger then Sylvanas Windrunner, nor Anduin Wrynn, nor Tyrande and Malfurion or Jaina Proudmoore, they are the world now, do you get my point? Everything else is just a hollow following of the mentioned name. This is what WoW lore now has become, in my eyes, the bits focusing on the struggles of the normal grunt, footsoldier or peasent are far and in between.
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This! I’ve been saying this so many times. Why do people keep thinking this is fan service? Why do people think the Horde loves being in the spotlight all the time? I’d love to see the Alliance go bananas for once and Horde to straighten them a little. Maybe give them a pep talk and a spank. And to finish it off with a “if you’re naughty again WE WILL END YOU!”. Seriously it’s humiliating.
I love my Sylvanas but the way they make her do bad sheet doesn’t do her justice. If she was the hero in all these cinematics I’d take your argument, but she’s not. I can only hope that by the end of this they come up with a good excuse.
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I don’t disagree with any of these, you’re right.
And in no part of my posts did I ever imply otherwise, I can also tell you that from the blue side, as you must have read many times already, it’s not very enjoyable to be the morally stupid faction either.
But I feel like the subject has been shifting here.
What I argued against was the overuse of characters, and in that case the character who has been overused the most. Sylvanas. Like seriously, she became the driving plot device of the expansion’s Old God and Naga narratives with her taking of Xal’atath, her deal with Azshara and liberating Ashvane, and I’m just here wondering why she had to be. Probably just to hoodwink the fanbase into speculating her allegiance was secretly to the Old Gods, and it sucks.
There are certainly close seconds on the blue side, too.
And I don’t like it, I hate it as much as you.
Warcraft 3, as I’ve mentioned in other threads, is the height of Warcraft lore for me. Sure, plots were still circling around great heroes and great villains, but I felt they all had their parts in a great world under their feet. And as chapters went on I felt it grow alongside them, instead of shrinking on them.
With WoW I felt that world grow exponentially larger, and now it’s…in an uncomfortable spot.
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Just for the record, you’re not under attack here.
I Didn’t think you’d disagree with those points either, wether Alliance or Horde player.
And your opinion on Sylvanas Windrunner, is just that, an opinion, wich you’re free to have and express- as pointed out, many people don’t like the current narrative, for their own reasons, I think she’s been getting to much spotlight aswell, but none of it is as I had hoped for, contrived, overplayed, retconned…they’re/were trying their utter best to make us dislike her, so yeah, it became boring.
I like Sylvanas Windrunner, but I dislike what they’re doing to her.
Maybe WoW is due a soft reset(at the least) after Shadowlands, maybe a ‘fresh start’ would help re energise this franchise. But who knows…
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I don’t see how would that happen as there’s so many people invested in their accounts and everything they achieved so far. Plus not everyone cares about the lore.
Maybe if they lets say place us in a new world but let us keep all our stuff, but then would it really feel new?
With WC3 the world was more alive because the Genre allowed to unfold the different stories separately and bringing them into one glorious ending. Compared to WoW, I see WC3 as a birds eye view. Bit zoomed out, with more flexibility to change and for story to flow freely - changing alliances and more fast phased conflicts.
Intricately WoW will never offer the same phase or same changes. WoW was a hit at start because the world was new and the zones needed to be explored where you were offered small side quests and the ongoings of different parties and that was interesting to consume. It basically gave the player the perspective to what was going around within Alliance and Horde, the internal strifes or struggles. But that expansion was gone and world never changed… That … that would never be the case with game like WC3…
And there’s another thing WoW as game faces - the faction restrictions. The amount of work has to be put to change something is tremendous. Thus the story is forced to be fit to game design.
I get your point and its valid one, it’s just WoW is not able to deliver same lively action as its rpg counterparts. This time we get Sylvanas story moving forward, just like WC 3 managed to tell Arthas’ story in 2 games, but this one is laser focused only one picture. Its distorted image and not satisfying. But the concept is the same.
SR actually really hits that hard. It actually, for the first time, explores and gives us the different opinions and forces that might disagree or clash with each other. While Horde comes to more solid ground of understanding after so much they been through.
Game is so laser focused on main story that it completely derived the races from their own stories and its blade to see only few characters representing whole bunch in global threats.
Like what is happening in Council of Three Hammers and Ironforge politics and so Forth…
I ment in regards to World building, lore and the storylines.
Yeah, but that’s why I called it a ‘soft reset’, I realise that a hard/ full reset isn’t interresting now, maybe for a WoW 2 or something.
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They have the chance to do a world revamp after Shadowlands. It has the potential to be a massive change if they go for the timeskip thing. WoW could be fast forwarded many years and things could be very interesting. I’m a big fan of this.
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I really hope you’re right and I agree with most of what you said, It’s not easy having an MMO like this one be as constant evolving, and I suppose the restrictions of the Factions do play a part in it. But I’m not going to let it off that easily, some of these things can be handled beter, they did tell us they have different writing teams, after all?
Like, Tyrande’s mission for revenge shouldn’t really be a Horde player’s story, it’s an Alliance players interrest, to shoehorn the other side in there, I feel is going to be a mistake, again.
Why can’t Horde characters kick off some quests and storylines that are about them and the Horde races, like Baine for example, has allot to make amends for, and because of the (badly done) tauren heritage armor questline, he could be tied into the Shadowlands aswell, together with Talanji, Hamuul Runetotem, Calia Menethil, Dark Ranger Velonara, Rokhan and Vol’jin(I’m afraid he’ll end up being lost in this expac).
I mean yeah, I get your point, it is indeed focused on a few characters at a time, which I understand when it comes to driving the main point, but on the side the other characters can still push some questlines that’ll give us additional lore about our favorite warcraft races, from what I gathered they do have the staff for it. I’m kind of parroting your point now atm…lol
Man, I hope Shadowlands is going to be a different direction…like you said, at the least they can have some stuff happening in the background back on Azeroth, introduce some new characters, preferably the real #Morallygrey types and not throwaway villain material.
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This part, yes, it’s easily salvagable, with more resources and time I guess, for better player experience. Or having Horde characters ditching Tyrande and going their own way and vice versa with Alliance.
This. The villains need build up and not moustache twirling. I haven’t seen much of Jailers stuff, but the intro dialogues and voice acting makes me bit worried. For instance take Sylvanas story. Even though there are masses hating where they took her it’s still engaging for community and she had a build up at the very least, some can’t wait to get their hands on her, others justify her. Overall if/when she will be put on pedestal it will be glorious and good sell. But would have been nicer if it was less Arthas-y story telling.
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