Do people actually prefer this content model to what we had in Legion and BFA?

No, I just change them at the start of the dungeon. And some talents are needed only for a certain week, like Phantasm this week for entangling or mc/shackle for previous.
So for me basically it’s the same as previous system, cause I only change 1-2 abilities. 99% of the talents are always the same for me.

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Also to be more precise i have
-Immutable hatred pure Single Target
-Immutable hatred cleave
-Guilluotine Aoe
-Immutable Hatred single target but with GWD
-PVP build
-Questing

6th was a old Nether Portal st build and i changed it :upside_down_face:

Cool if you have variety. But for example as a disc in m+ there is now one and only build with mindbender. You can change 1-2 talents at best. But the main build will always be the same. Ofcourse, that is if we’re talking about maximum profit. So for me, yeah… It’s just one build with minor changes depending on an affixes.

Pretty mid, tiny ones.

Awful feature.

Awful feature.

Awful feature

One of the worst stories ever old in WoW.

So yeah, I don’t miss BfA at all. Or Legion for that matter. Much happier with the DF model. Though I prefer MoP overall.

DF is MoP with dragons instead of pandas. Even the setup of a continent in the mists is the same. Neutral race with a new class.

Prefer MoP’s zone design/factions.

They removed them because while they were new and cool in Legion, they kept hitting the reset button on them each Xpack and people got tired of losing all their progress.

And then they assumed that nothing was better than something. And while everybody was busy praising the game for having no content, heaps of people quietly left.

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80% of your argument is that getting meager gear and artifact power is supposed to be “rewarding”.

Brother I’m all for more content but you’re calling quests content here.

Hopefully never EVER happens again. Spending an entire expansion choring for AP only to throw it all away by shoving it into a 2000 foot tall sword that should have cracked Azeroth into two and obliterated it.

Quantity =/= quality.

All the systems you listed (artifact power, azerite armor, horrific visions and the associated void eguipmennt, essences etc) were the worst cancer this game has ever had.

An eternall treadmill that would keep you logged to the game not because you liked the content, but brcause if you did not participate in it, you would not perform optimally in the content you actually enjoy doing, be it M+, pvp, raiding or otherwise and made alting all but impossible for all other people save for unemployed and kids.

WoW bled the most customers ever between Legion and SL, because it turns out treadmill activities that aren’t fun will not actually keep people subbed to the game, they just burn out and quick.

So, do I prefer DF gameplay? 200% yes.

Does it have less content than previous expacs? Yes, but I do not care at all. The content that is in the game has better quality than the last 3 expansions combined.

Never again to borrowed power.

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This is a ridiculous lie because it has nothing to do with your natrative. WoW bled subs in WoD because of a lack of content, somewhat through BFA because of their stupid decisions with Azerite and forcing people into islands, and SL was the worst of all for many reasons.

No subs were bled during Legion it was literally among the best expansions ever by any metric. I would also make the same quantity =/= quality argument for the content cadence people are praising Dragonflight for.

I love that everyone is hyper focusing on AP and chores when my primary argument is that DF has LESS mainline content than those expansions, on top of having no unique features like everything I listed initially. Even when ignoring the controversial AP grinds, we have fewer dungeons, fewer raids, no challenging solo content in Mage Tower and Visions.

The only thing we have as replacements is tons of quests where NPCs mope and heal from trauma, and world events giving gear that’s 40 ilvls below max. So again, how does DF have more or better content than Legion and BFA?

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Bar sylvanas it was great anyway

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Yes they did. People stayed subbed for 1 month into and then burned out and waited till the next patch. In comparison, WoD just lost steadily subscribers over time.

The difference is that from legion to SL the rate at which those palyers dropped out increased with the number of systems these 3 expansions introduced to the game.

By which, exactly?

  • s1 was the least participated and played pvp season of all time during Legion.

  • Classes and specs were gutted to the point with the prune that blizzard spent the 3 subsequent expansions reintroducing abilities and passives back to specs because of how one dimensional they had become. Oh, and it also completely destroyed specs like demonology and survival hunter which both took an entire expansion to fix somewhat.

I don’t care what quantity of content DF has. The content that it has is the most solid we have had for years- And according to Blizzard, it is one of the best retaining expansions to date as a result.

Because it does not waste your time as a player. It respects it.
It does not force you to participate in content you despise.
And it doesn’t force you to care about an endless grind.

Mage tower has been back since SL, what are you on about? It’s still available.

I can PVP without needing to spam m+, have my stats arbitrarily decided for me by Blizzard, and pve and pvp are completey separated, as they were for the vast majority of this game.

That is why DF is better for me and anybody else can take a fat L for all I care.

I hate the lack of additional content in dragonflight. I want order halls, mage tower, Thorgast, pet forges, brawlers guild and island expeditions.

This expansion lacks some serious side activities.

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Weird how player opinion changes. When I was a noob at the end of Legion and was here on the forum in BfA, the near-universal consensus was that Legion was the second-best expansion after WoTLK. MoP was terrible, WoD was terrible, BfA was terrible… Yet according to some of the players on this thread, Legion was actually the worst?

In BfA, the forum had a few main conplaints:

Loot pinata (casuals had access to good gear).
Gear scaling for PvP (rated players couldn’t roflstomp casuals in Warmode and EBGs)
PvP items were needed for raid and M+ (end-game players had to play all types of content).
Azerite grind (end-game players had to play all types of content).

The reality is that a certain type of player really likes DF because there’s so little important stuff outside of end-game. The game designers have decided to honour the complaints of the end-game players by “respecting palyer time” and have decided that the game should follow two content streams:- raiders / M+ in one stream and causals in another.

Problem is, the casual stream in 10.1 and 10.2 has been garbage. End-game players are quite pleased about that, as it means they can focus on what they want to do. But for a player like me who is an MMORPGer at heart and not a hardcore instanced content player, there’s nothing of any consequence to do.

To be honest, I feel we’re at the same point with end-game as was the case with PvP when League of Legends came along. Back then, trying to fit new PvP and MMORPG into the same game didn’t really work, and that’s why the game (unofficially) spit into a PvP game and an MMORPG. That’s why true PvPers generally don’t play WoW.

What we need now is to split the game. Take M+ and Raid out of MMORPG game almost completely and make it a separate game with completely different gear system and completely different player power systems. Allow the same characters to play both games if desired, but aside from basic levelling experience and storyline make the two systems exclusive of each other. If end-game players feel they’re missing out because they don’t have time for both? Well, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t expect WoW to be an MMORPG and also expect the game to be designed around non-MMORPG content.

Players have a very very short memory

The most toxic and detrimental type of complaints there were. This is the reason world content is worthless, they caved in and decided to appease the sweats.

Afaik that was only the case for that one essence with crit that was bis for certain melee specs, which definitely does suck. PvE and PvP should never intersect because the game is fundamentally different and I’d wager most players don’t really enjoy both of these to the same degree.

As for PvE, there is nothing wrong with having rewarding world content like it was back then. Preserving the egos of sweatlords that think anyone gives a damn about their accomplishments is far less important than making gearing possible through multiple sources.

As someone who DOES raid and do M+, I don’t want to have to do that all the time because it’s very time consuming in terms of raiding, and too stressful and punishing in terms of M+. You need to be able to take a break and still have content you can do outside that’s worth something, they can also stop being embarassingly incompetent and start using more than 1 CPU thread so that massive events and world bosses don’t wreck performance on every computer in existence.

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i completely agree with this part

this is just wrong imo. other games have engaging open world content or solo challenges alongside with raids dungeons, wow doesn’t add good open world content because then they’d have to add good rewards to them and people just don’t want that. the prejudice wow players has is insane . it’s not their fault tbh because of the past experience. and blizz can always add challenges with cosmetic rewards so that’s what i usually criticise but bfa wasn’t that BAD for an average mmo player, it was bad for people who wanted to do 2.5k rating with 5 chars and that shouldn’t be repeated but dragonflight is just DEAD . superblooms already stopped reaching purple reward most of the time because not many people are doing it now for example… remember the thing that’s keeping this game alive was a legion addition

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A lot of bla bla, not a single phrase of consistent propositions.

Other games have engaging open world content. But its defenetly not like the one wow has.

I never said Open World content has to be instanced like M+. Im just saying, M+ is popular not because its intanced, or has rating or rewards or whatever. Just think about it for a minute and you will realize yourself.

Its popular for different reasons. And THOSE are the rasons that people want in 2023.

YES. Because its BORRIIIIING!!! :smiley:

SOLUTION: DONT MAKE IT BOOOOORING! :smiley:

Wich is good, those sucked in legion.
Espcialyl since was no currency to buy and/or bad luck protection

Instead of normal rep rewards, stuff was jst put at 1% chance in paragon chests

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