Also just different people like/dislike different things
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What i miss from pre Shadowlands is the 120lvl
Horde and alliance story was completely different so it was much more fun to roll a alliance character and do drustvar or tiragarde
Plus one more thing i miss is the zones like mechagon
I don’t remember they adding such zone into DF and forbidden reach is not that at all 
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M+ is absolutely only popular because it has rewards, thinking otherwise is a delusional cope. The only other part is the addiction to climbing charts and RIO like it’s 2005 and someone’s gonna care how much score or ilvl someone else has.
The worst thing DF did fot M+ was making it go to +20 for rewards scaling because it exposes how tedious the game mode is when scaled to those difficulties and above.
Playing the affix and having enemies and bosses all be damage sponges is the opposite of fun, and that’s what M+ is with added sweat. It wouldn’t 10% as popular as it was if there was no gear and score.
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Said like someone that does not do M+ clearly… 
You can keep up your delusion. You clearly haven’t thought this through
For me the game feels more like a game. Previous expansions especially legion felt like a chore.
Want to play your alternative specs? Go farm for your artifact weapon if said spec.
Want to play an alt make sure you grind to get that up to be as good as your main or you won’t get invited I to m+ or raid if your missing key points of your artifact tree.
I feel like my time is respected more in DF than other expansions. This can still be improved on and it should be, but it’s better than it was.
I prefer the dungeon structure they did this xpac. Bringing back old dungeons and breathing new life into them is great.
I loved throne of tides in Cata and it’s awesome to play it again and appreciate the changes they made to it to bring up to a more modern standard.
For me this has been a W overall. Though I do wish they would add some new content similar to horrific visions and mage tower as they were fun and had cool rewards.
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Hit the nail on the head. No matter how excellent content is dealing with the above to maintain characters becomes very draining, and is frankly punishing to players who have limited time to play.
Designing character maintenance to be a constant grind for several expansions in a row caused players fatigue to the point that the game’s population dramatically dropped and has still not recovered. The majority of the playerbase is casual and they got burnt out. Even serious raiders did as well. DF is not perfect but in this particular aspect it has taken many steps in the right direction.
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Agreed. Ion said in an interview with preach they are having a big shake up in their design philosophy.
Letting go of old rules and values that they seem out dated. Hopefully we see more from them as they transition away from character focus and more account focused.
Personally big things I would like to see are Account wide reps, story not locked behind renown and no death runs in raid. Please just put me in front of the boss lol.
Time is something I have less of now that I’m an adult. I don’t want the game to pander to me, but blizzard have to acknowledge they have an aging player base.
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Yay, the braindead azerite farm was such a good addition, funand engaging gameplay that was…
I remember those, that was the afternoon nap 
Mocking asside…
Its easy to add a bunch of content if you know beforehand its gonna be removed again in a few months…
There is more development in making evergreen content, so while i understand your frustration, because you’re right, without the one expansion and gone content there is not a whole lot to do outside m+ and raid… well, and pvp i guess…
But it seems like from TWW talks, bliz has admitted that. And delves is meant to help fill the empty spots.
I would also love for them to bring the original idea of torghast back. Not the abomination we got… but the original idea was pretty awesome.
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Most WQs are not worth the travel time to get to them. But they don’t need an infinite grind like AP, they could just do better on Flightstones and Crests. More rep won’t hurt either, 50 rep in Emerald Dream (unless it has a rep token as reward) is terrible.
A WQ should be minimum 100 rep, 25g, 10 Flightstones, 3 Whelp Crests as standard then with the other rewards as now. And I’d probably make the other rewards a choice, select a rep token, gold pouch, whispering dream thingy or a 415 item.
WQs are poorly rewards for sure but AP is not a good reward.
It’s easier because it require less foresight, but it’s not easy. I’m absolutely sure that more effort work went into artifacts as a whole than into DF talent trees.
Class order halls were also a LOT of content when combined, even if you only played like 2 classes it was more than what DF reputation questlines have to offer, on top of them being way more cool and relevant to your class fantasy.
And if you were only playing your main, there was always content to do that would be beneficial to your player power in some way. Non-gear related player power progression is very valuable because it gives you something to do rather than having alts as the only alternative once you get bored of the gear threadmill, that was the goal of AP and what Diablo did with Paragon levels.
The problem was their stupid and stubborn way of designing these systems with nothing being account bound and carrying over to alts and other specs (AK should’ve been much faster on other specs).
But again, you’re comparing expansions in their entirety rather than the content model which is the whole point of my post. Even ignoring AP completely, Legion had more content in every area of the game excluding the sheer mass of the zones, which translates to LESS daily WQ content not more.
We could STILL be getting old dungeons mixed in without only getting 8+megadungeon for the whole expansion. Remixing an older dungeon does not make up for not having a new one, having a fated raid tier doesn’t make up for having the fewest total amount of bosses we have ever had by a lot (again excluding SL because of a myriad of factors).
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I didn’t play after Legion and started in DF, I think that DF misses artifact weapon system
I really enjoyed grinding artifact power and doing all world quests until map was clean
It gave me a sort of carrot on a stick and with each upgrade I felt more powerful and satisfied
Right now you have really nothing to do except running m+ all day long (I don’t enjoy PvP)
So instead when I have some spare time I’m doing dailies from previous expansions, really like shadowlands theme and running Torghast, BFA feels boring right now because all azerite is useless
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False, on many levels. I am not really sure what else I can say here because their differences, tone and layout have obvious differences. Not to mention they are more immersive. Best outdoor areas IMO.
Dragon riding IS content. It added racing and more ways to do questing. Not to mention it added a minigame into traversing the outdoor world which made the little journey to 70 level more interesting and interactive. Also, you forgot to mention drakes are customizable.
Again false, you can have different talent builds for different things. Also, even if this was true I welcome more horizontal progression which gives me the freedom to play my character exactly how I want to, even if the options I don’t use might seem “useless” to me.
People communicate again, to sell, buy, barter etc etc. At the beginning players were confused the interaction with the system was limited, now the majority of the community has embraced it and it’s marvelous. They can also expand on it further in creative ways to make crafting even more unique for each crafter in the future.
Less grind = Huge win for me. You might have missed your hamster wheel from Legion, BFA and SL. I didn’t. Not in the slightest. I want to have the time to do some other things as well which do not involve rewards in loot, power, gold or achievements.
To me they are perfect, it adds hubs which gather players organically and optionally in certain parts of the zones. This boosts the social aspect of the game and revitalizes wPvP. People are talking in the chat again. asking help from each other and grouping up for objectives and wPvP. No, we don’t need mandatory rewards to make them interesting. Imbu is one of the best designed areas in the game and rarely does it have Storm or a WQ over it. I don’t need a WQ to visit Imbu though, I love it with its little secret and RP moments. If I want to chill, I visit it from time to time.
You find meaning only in gold, loot and character power or cosmetics. That’s the issue. Personally, I am glad that DF is taking a step towards a very different direction. It’s what brought me back in WoW (I previously quitted during SL).
L2 says hi.
It’s already split between PvE and PvP which makes the addition of hybrid content almost impossible. Don’t make this worse please.
No it’s not false on any level, Legion’s 5 starter zones combined have objectively more visual diversity than DF’s 4 zones, but still, the difference is neither big nor that important.
It’s not, dragon racing world quests are content but that’s again, less content than we had in Legion because WQs were daily, and there were more of them combining all 5 zones. It’s impossible to quantify dragon riding because I do think it is much better than what we had before, but I still don’t fly around aimlessly for no reason unless I’m going somewhere to do something.
It’s not horizontal “progression” because you have done all the progressing there is by the time you reach the end game. You also had the option of swapping out ST for AoE talents in the last 5 expansions which is what most people are doing with these talents as well. You copy the few relevant builds, and change them up as you’re about to do appropriate content.
Lmao, here is how people are communicating: “How much for X? > 15k guarantee > lol no” or “How much for X? > 6k > ok sending”. This is a classic andy cope that you can make players more social and interactive by enforcing interaction upon them. It’s not gonna happen and it isn’t happening, people socialize over crafting as much as they do in M+, only as much as necessary if at all.
I know that a chunk of the playerbase wants WoW to be so good and devoid of grinds that they don’t need to play the game at all, and you’re getting your wish because fewer and fewer people are playing the game. I am not an advocate of gearing taking a long time but gearing being the only form of progression, and it being tied to raiding and M+ exclusively makes for a boring, raid-logging expansion.
It’s taking a step towards having no content.
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I honestly never understood what people saw in Timeless Isles. There was nothing there but annoying mobs and useless treasure chests. The zone didn’t even look good, but perhaps the lack of flying is a big part of that. You lose a lot of impression of a zone if you can’t fly, as you lose a lot of the overview.
Even going to timeless isles these days makes me wonder what entertained people in that place. I went there for some mogs in summer, and thought I’d try do some more stuff there, but again it just felt like an empty shell. I just left again.
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NON CONTENT.all of them.
NOT INTERESTING at all.
I don’t do racing(yuck)
I even shrug when I get a manuscript cause I cant even sell it on the ah.
Sorry.
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Set and forget.Imported the best from Icy veins once.
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Worst system.
Yelling in chat come get r5 from me is comunicating?Yes sure how much?10k fine.Lol.
Why force people comunicate?
If its not organic it shouldn’t happen.
Also lets not get into how complicated profs are.
And how only the goblins and exploiters made money from them.
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It is because it was claimed the DF zones do not have visual diversion. They do. Yes you can say that Legion zones were more diverse but that’s it. DF Ones have nothing to do with each other. I wish could post images to make a point here…
That’s not more content. That’s more grind.
You just said it yourself… It’s progression. Does this progression finish at some point? Yes it does. But infinite progression should be avoided anyway because more often than not it’s not and cannot be implemented in a meaningful way. I don’t fancy hamster wheels.
Would I welcome even more horizontal progression? Yes… But I am happy they, at least, went towards that direction even if they took less steps than I would have took, had I been in their shoes.
Aside from the fact it was not as easy to switch between builds in previous expansions, the previous talents were not even close to the ones we have now which infinitely better. They are not perfect for some classes l, but they are better than the previous iteration.
I hate Classic with a passion. To the point I am glad it exists only because people can stop crying about retail while moaning about the supposed “good old days”. If they like those old days so much they can now play Classic and leave us alone.
Not my experience. I made new in-game friends thanks to this system. If you don’t like being social in an MMO that’s a you problem. The minimum communication is the one you described as an example, so even those who hate social interactions don’t have a reason to hate it.
You want to exchange only 2-3 sentences of dialogue? Good, more power to you. Want to have a friendly discussion or even plan out sime event and/or future crafts? You can do so, because thanks to this system a chat between two players was initiated.
And of course, that’s not the only reason this system is good and I love it. It has so much more going for it and I love what they did with it. For example, the fact the specializations have been made to be leveled up slowly meant that you had people specialising in different things, because the spec trees were not made to be maxed out immediately. We need more things like that. We need nore personalization in crafting so I applaud for, once again, going the right direction even if they didn’t take enough steps towards it.
First of all, the numbers are recovering according to official numbers so there is an uptrend right now and not a downtrend in player count. Secondly, DF retained the one who started playing better than SL and BFA who had bigger numbers than DF but lost them instantly after a few months. So I am not sure where you are getting the “less and less people playing”.
Lastly, if you want to do more activities, do them. They are there, why does everything have to offer loot and vertical progression? Can’t you do anything without an obvious carrot in front of you? I know for a fact I olay 5-6 hours yesterday, mining, fishing, doing a few WQs and wPvP. And I had fun because these were the activities of my choice. No one forced them upon me.
Forcing people doing “X” and “Y” in the game for vertical progression can cause severe burnout in a couple of months.
The best example to this would be Torghast. EXCELLENT PVE content IMO. Its only flaw? That you had to do it constantly for rewards associated with you vertical progression regarding your legendary gear. After a few months it got old due to the fact we were forced to do Torghast runs constantly.
I just explained there is content. You just want a carrot in front of you to do it. I don’t.
This… 
I will also add it had many secrets, nice events and buffs throughout the whole island. You could also get a nice item which made you an enemy to both Alliance and Horde and you essentially had to kill many members to receive a reward (which was a mount? Just an achievement? I don’t remember as I never managed to do it).
It is content… It doesn’t matter if you do it or not. And I do not do pet battles or M+ above +14… But you don’t see me saying these are not content.
That’s a you problem. I made the talent choices myself to better suit my class fantasy and I loved it. I want more choices and Hero Talents next expansion will give those. I just wish we had a Rifleman Hero Talent tree but that’s another discussion.
You sound like the average M+ and Raid spammer. If I am correct you are the last ones who can complain because you are getting the most content and tools out of everyone else. I am sorry that we don’t get 15 different dungeons and Raids each expansion or that WoW is not just a dungeon/raid-fest.
Being complicated is good, there is a depth to it.
And yeah sure if you want to just communicate on that level more power to you. However, I took the initiative to start discussions and make many new in-game friends exactly because the system made us start communicating in the first place.
You can be no social whatsoever and just exchange the minimum amount of words needed if you don’t like it. As you have proven yourself, it’s not much of a hassle… So yeah, best system ever and I hope they take more steps towards this direction and give the crafters and farmers more personalized options.
Ohh my sweet summer child.You read me so wrong.
I want more world content.Not 5 wq every 3 days.
I dislike m+ with such a passion.
So no those are not the reasons I am dissagreeing.
And this is a raid/m+ expansion(less of them but still only thing U can do for progression) which I really don’t appreciate.