Not so much these days, despite having mained Outlaw/Combat since Burning Crusade. It’s a bloated mess of a spec these days that was hamfisted into a new identity with Legion only to have most of the identity flavor abilities backtracked immediately after, with a heavy focus on an RNG ability that pushes folks to use an addon just to track it because the base UI does little to make it easily readable.
Personally I’d take Bandit’s Guile back over Roll the Bones.
Combat > Outlaw
i think it is super fun because it is so fast paced. sometimes you get an unlucky streak and nothing procs, but thats rare.
the only thing what bugs me if i look at the dmg meter and i see a very big line from my passive aoe. next is the storm gem and then comes the abilities.
i think it did not see any other class where one thing does like 40% of your total dmg.
the aoe dps is quite nice but most abilities feel like they hit for nothing. but since you spam so many things the dps is actually there.
st on the other hand feels quite weak
I do enjoy it, yes. Though the nerf to pistol shot definitely hurt the spec for me and it’s not nearly as fun as that ruined the flow.
Yes, it’s the only DPS spec I like in this game to be honest.
Even with the RNG and the nerf I very much like it.
Same remark here. I remember comments years ago, complaining about Combat spec beeing to simple, even boring. With BfA, taking aside all the pirate revolution, Combat, Outlaw from now, was much more complex, but not to the overwhelming point. After Between the Eyes ground change, and other tweaks in SL, the spec has become even more complex. Now, I can’t make an Outlaw build which wouldn’t force me to keep track of at least couple of cooldowns, and pressing the right buttons on the right time to maintain proper dps level. Outlaw in a sense became rogue’s substitute of hunter’s survival. And THAT is boring. And unfun.
You are correct in this, but it goes beyond, Slice and Dice is very old school and I think it’s not emphasized enough why.
In earlier versions of the game an auto attack weighted a lot more, anyone can download any version of Classic and try it out (altough this shows better with a leveled character, at least level 15-20), I personally played back then and recently up to level 70 in WotLK Classic pre-patch as a Combat Rogue.
In comparison, an auto attack does less than 0.5% of your character’s HP in damage in the later versions of WoW, but in the earlier versions an auto attack could do 5% of your character’s HP or more and critical hits hit harder than some abilities. Also rogue poisons were much more powerful, hitting like auto attacks or more on a 20% proc rate, and now they deal four times halved less than an auto attack on 30% proc rate.
World of Warcraft is a very different game now, now we just use abilities much more to deal damage than auto attacks and lots of damage from auto attacks were moved into abilities.
Altough since Shadowlands they made auto attacks do more because in Legion and BfA it was ridiculously low, note we had Slice and Dice as an option to replace Roll the Bones in those expansions as a +125% attack speed buff and it underperformed on both expansions, and then it was made into +50% attack speed buff in Shadowlands and Dragonflight and in this two later expansions auto attacks altough do more damage than in Legion their weight of importance overall is extremely small than in previous iterations (Before Legion).
In short; Slice and Dice is an obsolete ability only retrieved in an attempt to bring back some of the class fantasy (RPG) that they removed over the years, while being brought in an environment where such an ability can only act in a parasitic way because classes are much more different than before.
Literally all that Slice and Dice does can be stuffed back into the class. Damage from extra auto attacks from attack speed spread into abilities, proc rates increased, etc…
And what do we get in exchange? Less button bloat and less maintenance buffs, and we really need less of those two things as 10.1 tier set for Outlaw rogues also add even another maintenance buff on top of that that lasts less than the debuff of the ability that also triggers it.
So yeah, it’s not only “old school”, it’s pretty damn obsolete in the modern grand scheme of things.
SnD is a problem for the whole Class. I maintain, that the biggest issue with it has to do with feedback. You don’t feel anything, when you press it. It’s just there to maintain, or you suck. We already know, that everything it provides mechanically could be achieved by other means.
At this point, it is just a redundant ability, and unnecessary button bloat.
Yes, I agree, and I feel like I haven’t emphasized enough that if auto attacks were like before Legion Slice and Dice would feel much better, I totally agree, auto attacks don’t feel like attacks KEK.
You’re wasting your breath at this point asking for much changes I think. Just thank your stars that sub rogue hasn’t been nerfed into the ground because I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s coming soon.
It’s very good in terms of gameplay, but they have damaged the spec with some stupid ideas.
First they nerfed fan the hammer combo point generation, which means that you can no longer get a proc and go back to 7 combo points in 1 gcd, unless you have broadsides.
And then they are gonna change grand melee in the next patch, without changing blade flurry, and slice and dice.
So basically while new grand melee is stronger than the current version, it’s also not very fun to play with, and causes outlaw to press slice and dice more, which no one likes, and it also causes you to press blade flurry in st, which at the moment it’s also not nice considering it doesn’t generate any combo points.
But blizzard has been making some pretty stupid decisions recently, look at demonology warlock as an example. Or the new affixes.
I’m not sure how I feel about Shadowstep for Outlaw. We were given Grappling Hook as a gap closer which was fine IMO. It’s one of my favourite abilities as you don’t need a target to use it. I agree with the sentiments about SnD - it needs to go. I don’t even use it as Outlaw. I also like the change to Roll the Bones because it no longer costs Combo Points and you don’t go fishing for buffs anymore.
No, it’s terrible. Better than before, granted, but no where near Combat.
RNG shouldn’t exist in your ability rotation, period.
Sadly, Shamans suffers from this far worse than we do.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/coWbCs5RhGkQDkSH5tsEid
well, current 4 pieces actually has the same amount of damage like 2 current and 2 previous (with 385+402 ilvl) witch is kinda stupid imo
No outlaw plays build up 2 buffs than a debuff to do more damage than ask the stars for blessin and than pray to the gods ur dice will do a thing.
Blizzard realy I start duobt ur competence
Yes and no
I love outlaw as a spec and i enjoy it in pvp and pvp only
Sadly the damage atm is absolute trash
I actually play outlaw rogue as main in pvp, i don’t think is that bad.
Unless you’re in 2400, you can kill most classes except warrior.
RNG is actually an advantage as they cannot predict what you’re going to do but you can predict them.
Combine your RNG with incentives to keep fighting and odds are most classes will struggle to keep fighting you as soon as you take their burst out.
So no i dont think outlaw is a bad specc at all.(you will struggle to get to 2400 but unless everyone here got that rating with other speccs i dont see why worry about that)
I just saw loads of people on the US forum going REMOVE ROLL THE BONES. RNG SUCKS.
It’s the RNG that makes the spec interesting and unique. Honestly some people know the cost of everything yet the value of nothing. If they don’t like it play something else rather than calling for the spec to lose what makes it different.
Except that RtB hasn’t always been a part of the spec’s identity if we look back to when Outlaw was Combat. RtB has been controversial since its inclusion in Legion, irregardless of how much they’ve tried balance the various buffs it can give, some people just outright hate the RNGness of it. At least in Legion and BfA you could opt out of it and take a slight DPS loss, but in Shadowlands it was mandatory and in Dragonflight it’s a significant DPS loss to avoid.
Despite being in the camp of hating it, I don’t think it should be outright removed, rather I think the design of our talents should offer more flexibility to choose between an Outlaw Rogue style of play and the classic Combat Rogue style, possibly even making it a choice node to choose between SnD and RtB as it seems common that fans of one, hate the other, and despise having to play with both.
I personally don’t mind RtB, the only thing about it I dislike is that the buffs are unequal in value. Buried Treasure and Grand Melee are either only good coupled with other, better buffs, or in the latter’s case only good in AoE situations (which was an awful change).
Generally the solutions I’d be fine with would be simply making the lacklustre two stronger, or just…cutting them, as I’ve seen some others suggest. Take the total number of buffs down to four, with RtB always giving two buffs instead of varying between one, two or five (why tf is it five anyway?)
I really don’t think Slice and Dice is worthwhile as a choice against RtB, and I think practically every rogue wants to see SnD gone. If you’re going to propose an alternative choice against RtB that runs closer to old Combat, the better option would likely be Bandit’s Guile.
And theres ur flaw. Outlaw isnt combat, they didnt delete a specx and rebuild a completely different theme, with different mechanics with a different backstory for u to refer to it as combat either.
Combat is a deleted specc.
Outlaw is its replacement, its not a rework of combat. Its not a modernised combat. Its just not combat.
RTB has from the stsrt been a core mechsnic to the outlaw rogue.