If you consider 2 potential Allies and one Ambassador is welcoming, friendly and understanding while the other is cold, distrusting and even hostile it’s pretty obvious who you allie with.
They joined before the War of Thornes broke out and didn’t take part in any war efford. Also Talyssra was one of the first to join the uprising against Sylvanas.
Attacking one and forcing their hand is even more stupid.
You just justified the Horde Attack on Teldrassil and Kul’Tiras. Attacking the Elves and destroying their City was okay because it weakened them and made the alliance be a lesser risk, and risking an alliance between the Alliance and Kul Tiras would be stupid so destroying their cities and attacking them is totally fine…
Never said it wasn’t justified. What wasn’t justified was the mass slaughter of civilians and the destruction of a World Tree tho.
Also the reasoning behind it was dumber then Forrest Gump.
The burning of Teldrassil was dumb, “Hey lets burn down an entire nation full of civilian hostages because one elf said something that made me sad even if that was entirelly against my original plan. 7d chess yeah!” - Sylvanas Windrunner.
Not entirelly the same. The Kul Tirans where opposed to (re)joining the Grand Alliance because of what Jaina Proudmoore did and the lack of Alliance support earlier. The Horde’s attack did force them to reevaluate their position though.
The Zandalari Empire’s princess and hier to the throne was on her way to the New Horde to make either a deal or ask for their assistance, because of which the Zandalari were attacked.
End result is the same tho, both nation were attacked and both (re)joined either the Alliance or Horde.
Is it? Because the way I see it the Alliance got the second best outcome out of attacking the Zandalari, instead of the worst. (which would’ve been the Zandalari suffering nothing and then at full strength joining the Horde as thanks for their assistance with the blood troll and traitor troubles before they went way out of hand like they did ingame).
And I already agreed that I was wrong on that?
Doesn’t say much positive about Thalyssra’s character, like with Garrosh the entire Horde was fine with going along with it until Garronas Hellrunner turned on her own.
Except Tyrande wasn’t cold or hostile towards Thalyssra. Yes she was direct and slightly distrusting/sceptical about Thalyssra but that was because of their shared history.
Besides, Tyrande would not have known Thalyssra opposed the Legion at the start. (Did Thalyssra oppose the raising of the shield and the leaving the rest of the night elves to die tho?)
The Revantusk for example are already part of the Horde and they did support the Amani in every war against the Sin’dorei (well aside from WoW ouf course).
Even more, the Zandalari supported the Amani during the Troll Wars and now they are part of the Horde too.
Of course that makes it better. What should have they done ? Quit the faction they had just joined upon learning that their warchief had burned their ennemies’ city ? Because yeah don’t forget that now that the Nightborne are members of the Horde, Night Elves are de facto their ennemies.
So, you’re telling me that Tyrande was right calling Thalyssra a potential new Azshara, for she has been guilty of genocide by association because she joined a faction whose warchief would later on lose her crap and burn the Night Elve’s capital ?.. That’s… far-fetched, to say the least. I really wonder if you’re genuinely thinking that.
Plus as the others said, Thalyssra has been one of the first to be critical of Sylvanas. I agree that it would have been coherent for her to be more vocal about Teldrassil, but I’m certain it has not escape your notice that BFA’s writing was an absolute mess anyway.
Come on. Trolls were colonized by the Highborne and Humans, with Quel’thalas being built upon their sacred lands. Alliance rejecting their Undead Lordaeroni brothers happened like 30 years after the Dark Portal. Talanji lost her father and her entire fleet yesterday o’clock.
Those events were both way more terrible blows than the supposed “betrayal” of the Nightborne. And those events didn’t happen 10k freaking years ago. Of COURSE Tyrande’s reaction was childish and unworthy of a leader.
EDIT : Oh yeah and actually, the Horde is wayyyy less resentful than the Alliance in general. In case you didn’t know, it has Trolls (including forest Trolls) working alongside Elves and former Humans, Pandaren and Goblins working alongside Zandalari… They just get over it. Humans on the other hand weren’t even able to accept their traumatized Undead brethren back lmao
I honestly dont think we’ll ever agree on anything but thay the writing of WoW is… abyssmal.
To me it feels like you give the Horde credits where its not due and forgive their races more easily for mistakes while not willing to do the same to the Alliance races.
I am certain I, at some points, seem quite unreasonable and opposite to you too.
(Just to make sure, I am not trying to be contrary or anoying on purpose or anything
Supported the war, and be the cause of the war is two diffrent things.
The Amani live right beside the Blood elves, and they constantly fight over land (in most cases the Amani always loses) not only that, Silvermoon city was built on top of sacred land. Trust me, the Amani wont join the Horde anytime soon. They dont even have Zul’Aman because of said Blood elves
Trolls mon. I’m CRAVING for anything Shatterspear-related. There’s something odd I like about them and my main’s a Shatterspear, BFA brought them back but only to make them quest food for Alliance adventurers :’((( sad reacts only
The Zandalari support was pretty much needed to start the war. They helped Jintha to become the leader of the Amani.
That’s just fan canon.
Sadly we don’t. We know there is a speaker of them in Zuldazar, so there has to be something.
Chronicles 3 described even that during the attack against Zul’Jin on Zul’Aman most of his army survived. This doesn’t speak for later events, but it could show their ability to hide and survive.
I agree. The Shatterspear need a leader and at least a speaker on the council in Orgrimmar to represent their tribe. Same with the speaker goes for the Revantusk.
Especially now that the Horde has lost UC… it would make complete sense for the Revantusk to be given screen time so they can help regain Red control over the northern half of the Eastern Kingdoms. Elder Torntusk had already mentioned that his goal was to secure the Hinterlands for his people and for the Horde.
And it would be interesting to see how they get along with BElves. That would make up for a cool plot for sure
That place will be sieged and destroyed. Go back to Ironforge where you came from.
There is nothing powerful about them. Sure they have many settlements in Northrend but that doesn’t equate with being powerful. If the Horde wants a real power boost they need the remaining Troll tribes to join.
That’s true, but they could update the Hinterlands and it would benefit both factions.
Perhaps the Revantusk assault on Jintha’alor was successful and it’s now in Horde hands? I’m sure there could cool updates also be made for the Wildhammer Clan in the area. A warfront could also be fun there.
Next to Elder Turntusk, Primal Turntusk want’s to go even further and to bring all Forest Troll tribes in to the Horde once more. I would like to see this plot from Cata to go somewhere.
I still want Taunka as an AR. I think they should get a representative too, every race and tribe should.
Sylvanas didn’t turn on their own until the Rebellion+Alliance sieged Orgrimmar though, The rebellion was born from moral problems with Sylvanas’ way of warfare.
True, I’m not saying they’d necessarily have to MANAGE seizing control over Hinterlands though, but they could try, a side plot built around that would be coherent. Actually the territorial clashings with the Wildhammer Dwarves already made up for a good proportion of the quests with the Revantusk back in Cata
Wait I never thought about that but that would be SICK and make sense. Now following the Zandalari joining the Horde (and the pan-troll mourning of Rastakhan) maybe the relationship with the Vilebranch could be friendlier so idk
(Also we’ve been off topic for like half the thread so sorry op LMAO)
It’s a shame the book Exploring Azeroth: Eastern Kingdoms, didn’t cover the hinterlands and what’s going on there. We haven’t had news for a long time.
Depends on a personal experience I suppose. For me the best results in practice I got with people with whom I had tension originally, but managed to work through that.
On the other hand, people who were easy to get along with as easily parted in favour of their own interests / goals when they were needed the most. So, depends I guess.
Depends if we try to use consistency and something like logic (athough I have to admit I might be flawed with such tool), or use the approach of the devs.
Sad, but it is the case. Although I think there is plenty of badness in all expasions, but BfA outdid the rest with inconsistencies and oddities IMO.
