End-Game is a Full-Time-Job (Not for casuals)

Community General Discussion
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There was a time when end-game was accessible to the more casual-gamer. People had the choice to not do overbearing questlines, or not do PvP/Dungeons/Raids. The game was theirs, to enjoy as they pleased. If someone did not want to do quests, they could completely avoid doing them and concentrate on Raids or just farming mobs or resources or PvP, or whatever they liked most.

With the latest patch, comes yet another overbearing questline, which players simply cannot avoid doing if they wish to do anything else worth-wile in the game. Yet another single item which requires endless hours of grinding, in order to give oneā€™s character the best chance at success in any form of group activities. So we now have to level up 2 individual items, grind daily this and daily that, farm dungeons for BiS items, do a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and totally waste our game time on unenjoyable rubbish.

You used to be able to fly for a price of gold! Cough-Cough

I know blizzard do listen to players (contrary to the ever growing common myth). But sadly, the only voices they are hearing are those which say ā€œYes blizzard, please give us more overbearing questlines, more items which take all day and night away from me.ā€ Blizzard are listening to the ones who have far too much time on their hands.

This bottleneck in the feedback loop leads many players to believe that Blizzard only care about Money, Money, Money! That they do not care at all what players think. But I always argue to that - if all Blizzard cared about were money, they would let us buy the flying skill for a price of gold, and cash in on people buying WoW Tokensā€¦

So what is the actual problem here?

Well, here is the actual problem, meaning right here! (these forums). There was a time when One could come to these forums one day, and then never see the same players again on their next visit, even if they came back the next day. Now, you just see the exact same players in every single thread/topic. These players suck up to blizzard and the status-quo. They argue against any new ideas or suggestions from players who are not common faces in these message-boards. They hope to get ā€œGreenā€ or ā€œBlueā€ poster status some day. Such a credit to the community they are. (sarcasm implied).

The rest of the players, are either far too busy to come to these forums to complain or suggest changes, or they believe their voice will not be heard or listened to anyway.

What can Blizzard do about this?
Well for one thing they can completely scrap the rewards system which grants green poster status to players, and maintain/reserve higher forum ranks for STAFF members only.
/watch-out below for someone saying they canā€™t afford to and making thorough arguments for the Player glorification system lol/

What else Blizzard could doā€¦ and this would probably bring back the 6 MILLION PLAYERS who have stopped playing World of Warcraft over the past 5 to 10 yearsā€¦ Just simply tailor the game to suit the more casual player. Casual players make up the biggest majority of the player base.

Stop tailoring the game to suit the 2 or 3 guilds who Always get world first raid achievements, and their mindless followers.

Stop forcing players to do overbearing questlines, and allow them to play the parts of the game they choose. Forcing players to do a little bit of every aspect of the game is killing the enjoyment and robbing players of their freedom.

Give us less things to do in the game! Let us have enough time each season to progress multiple characters, and finish the game on those characters. As it is, the majority of players do not have the time to invest in more than one single character, if they wish to get anywhere near the last boss on Heroic Mode Raiding, or anywhere near top end Mythic dungeons or PvP scoreboards.

Why can we create 50 characters, if we are not even given enough time each season to progress 2 of them to end game?

If you want to make World of Warcraft great again, then you need to hear the playersā€™ voices. You need them to have enough time to progress multiple characters, and enough time to come to these forums to voice their opinions of the game.

Make WoW great again, make it for the Casual majority.

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I donā€™t mind them making stuff for hardcore players - so long as there is plenty of content for casual players too.

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Clarify this. Progress to end game but not participate in it?

I canā€™t think of a time when it as ever feasible to have more than a handful of raid ready alts.

Currently I think the restrictions are too strict but it was hardly an alt fiesta before.

This seems a bit counter-productive to starting a conversation.

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What is endgame to you?

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I guess its progression HC/MYTH

I still play but i dont level my cloak or seek out corrupted gear, iā€™m using this time as a catchup for alts and achieve hunting.

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Oh please. 4 invasions a week and the minor vision like twice (you can just get the quest like 4 days in a row and do them all at once). Is that endless hours?

Besides, you really do not need BiS items or have your cloak at the max rank to do low keys, random bgs and the lfr-heroic raid

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Different day same post. Seen this title countless times throughout the years

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WoW offers quite a lot of content for players who donā€™t have much time.
And in my opinion you cannot pretend to do high end content without a certain amount of progression.

On a side note, the majority of current WoW players donā€™t care about the forums.

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I was able to attend alt raids on S1 with larger variation of alts, where now I barely can have one character comparable with other players because of corruptions. So not even 2nd job that game may want to be helps against RNG.

And as for alt-fiestas in general. 8.2 and 8.3 are both one of the most alt-unfriendly patches in this games history and that after I remember what both mop start and legion start were. But those were START of expansion, where you anyway had less characters leveled up and needed ā€œmainsā€ to get on track. Now they do it way round - they make half of expansion feel like a chore even for 1st character.

Like today after I had done 4*times the assaults, I felt fed up enough to log out instead doing 8 visions I need for my 2 characters.

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Well lets take a look at Lich King to Cataclysm days.
I would do Dungeons and Raids, PvP, farm, chase prestigious achievements like ā€œInsane in the Membraneā€. I had 5 max level characters, and I had the freedom to choose what I wanted to do. So the game was very enjoyable to me.

Now, we are forced to do endless amounts of quests, and for the well practiced quest lover with an all singing addon to guide them, that might be enjoyable and to them, ā€œend gameā€. This takes a chunk of extra time away. We are forced to grind for single items (Artifact/Legendary/Both). We are forced to run 5 boss dungeons which only drop loot at the very end of the dungeon, making it so that we have to seriously farm and grind away at those dungeons in order to get any loot at all, never mind the best in slot item we actually need.

A friend and guild member, she farmed Waycrest all of last season in search for a trinket she needed. She did that dungeon multiple times each day. Never got the trinket.

The last 2 seasons I have gotten my Warlock curved up and ready to start progressing Mythicā€¦ only to find that the majority of players were still struggling to complete the raids in normal mode, and only managing the first 50% of the bosses on heroic mode - each week. Players didnā€™t have enough time, along with family and work.

World of Warcraft as it is, its a full time job. Takes a lot of commitment.

Apart from quests, I would enjoy a lot of the end game content. But as it is, that is just not possible. I personally cannot stand being FORCED to do quests.

Many of my friends have simply quit the game because the quests and single item grinds make it impossible for them to progress through the end game.

When you have finished every dungeon on ā€œlevel 10ā€ and finished every boss in the raid on heroic mode. And had enough time to do that on more then one character ++ And had time to enjoy some PvPā€¦ then I would say you have completed the game.

Going above level 10 or above heroic is just e-sports. PvP tournaments are e-sports. That is when the game actually should be a full time job, and not before that level.

{please note, I am also a guild leader, and running a guild takes even more time up.

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How casual are we talking about here??

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Well the problem is that you must do that EVERY DAY compared to old days - ā€œfocus on it one long dayā€ (i.e. week-end). While old days they may have been more farm and grind, then the grind did require you to do it every single day.

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Fair enough - I do think that there is a chasm of difference between being in a raiding guild and being a solo player (I assume this is what casual means in this sense). So in that regard I see the OPā€™s point.

I think Iā€™ve always been a very single minded player over the years as in have a main and then have a DPS/Heal/Tank alt if the time allowed it. But nothing taken seriously. I never did grow out of the pre-Cata mindset.

I think the danger is in this ā€˜them and usā€™ situation - which I donā€™t feel but the OP seems intent on maintaining.

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IDK, raiding heroic and the first few bosses on mythic really doesnā€™t require a lot.

My alts that I play once every 3 months have 10s done, they donā€™t even need to do cloak stuff.

I did 19s intime playing a few hours every week :woman_shrugging:

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Nice to be carried no doubt.

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Even though the majority of people play games casually, competitive players spend more on microtransactions. So, I wouldnā€™t put my hopes so high on this game ever becoming casual friendly again.

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Thatā€™s all well and good, but I would like to do the Road Warrior.
(I would like to have time to level another character, perhaps a Warrior)

I would like to have enough time to sink my own teeth into a bit of Mythic raiding.

If I abandon my guild, I might have the time to dabble with some Mythic, butā€¦ the majority of players are casual players who cannot reach that level. So if I ready my Warlock for Mythic, he is left stranded. I am not going to abandon my guild, nor am I going to ignore the fact that the majority of players are casual players with lives outside of WoW. Those casual players at least deserve a chance at finishing Heroic raiding, and level 10 dungeons + some PvP.

With digital content, you can sell 1 item at Ā£50, or sell 10 items at Ā£5 and still make around the same amount of money that way.

Blizz can adjust prices to make more money, if they have an extra 6 million players.

Blizzard call WoW an ā€œEvolving gameā€. But when you consider that 10 years ago it had over 6 million more players, I would call it Devolving. It should by now have 6 million more players than it had 10 years ago, since every kid wants to play the game their parents are playing. (generally speaking).

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I donā€™t disagree but it seems that Acti-Blizzard wants to make more while investing less, this is why the game is devolving as you say. Fewer players, more revenue per players, smaller investment on their part and this way they think they maximize profits.
In my opinion, this can work short-term but it will just fail in the long term, especially if they would ever have to face serious competition, something that in the past 15 years hasnā€™t happened.

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Carried doing the most DPS :joy:

I feel like youā€™re just a subpar player that canā€™t accept you donā€™t need to play the game 24/7 to perform well.

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The only thing I sub-ed this month is for the ā€œLove is in the Airā€ event + I want to upgrade some 20 level veterans.

120 lvl is boring - boring - boring. I puked many times during my Zandalari Troll rep farmā€¦