This season concept is so crap. It should be an extra subscription for people who need weekly stuff to do and endless progression. and competition… fair enough.
Give us back a normal MMO where the first 3 months is just playing the game
1 Like
I somehow doubt its just pure rio. I am medicore at best and I make my own mistakes as well. I simply act as descent human being and even on a depleted key say “Eh no worries lads, we will get it next time, was still a nice attempt” instead of going full which hunt whom to blame and burn at the stake. So imagine that…if you are descent to others, people could be descent to you as well.
I bet to certain forum dwellers here, the concepts of “decency and being respectful towards” are so foreign that they will accuse me of speaking in Chinese. 
As for the tanks. Yeah. Been in pugs long enough and seen the declined text more times that Puny has posts on this forums so fully aware that tanks has it more easy.
Got an alt tankyboy as well and while I am aware that I could get insta invited to a pug group before I even signup for the 2nd group. I will only tank with guildies/friends/community. At worst I may sometimes dip my toe as dps again in the pug scene but at least for the time being, I consider myself retired from it, let Lilith stew with … “like minded” folks there for all eternity if it makes them happy. 
Sure.
https: //discord. gg/ 7WQ8qrsm9g
2 Likes
it has nothing to do with decency .
m+ was always a game of numbers
if you join enough group eventualyl you will find one capable of clearing content X.
because m+ rating doesnt decrese with failed keys you will eventually get score to get into better groups even if you play horribly bad.
that has always been a thing
the simple question is always the same - is it worth it ?
for huge crowd this season answer will be short and simple.
“no its not worth it”
if blizzard doesnt act fast there will be nothing to salvage.
and for the record. if you belive that as tank you would be invited regardless of your score and gear - yeah - thats another delusion
when people say that there is a lack of tanks what they really mean there is a dramatic lack of really well geared and scored tanks. because most peopel are hypocrites.
low geared low scored tanks are abundant.
You can play a video game and not be a heartless 
who doesnt give a care in a world about others. Might as well be bots, just dont get in my way. Will also even step over dying people if it means “getting my number”.
Had a few tanks which I encouraged to keep doing m+ and even timed a +10, after he came to the community after tried tanking with pugs and felt like you needed therapy afterwards.
Gee I wonder why…
Anyways Liliith. I wont argue with you.
You are happy with the cesspoll that is pugging? Where people will be even ready to climb over your corpse if it means getting that “precious precious number”. FINE. Stay there and blame Blizzard, me, John, Timmy next door for every problem you encounter because obviously “somebody else is always at fault”.
I got out of that miasmic sewer and found out that there are other ways to do m+.
1 Like
I just tank my own key. I find it unbelievably annoying when the keyholder declines people for ages and I’m sitting doing nothing.
I also don’t have to deal with the keyholder hurrying me because they want a +++ upgrade.
I like the chaos of never knowing what will happen. If I invite Kingofpumpinghugedeeps, will he actually pump huge deeps?
1 Like
I’ve been having a similar experience but to a lesser degree. I’ve never had to wait 3 hours - most times I can start within 5-15 minutes, I haven’t had people flaming me for not picking them, etc.
But I am certainly having a hard time and both I and others have been protective of our keys.
This “being protective of our keys” thing is really just the result of the toxic key depletion system, and it should be removed.
I think a lot of people are running into M+ right now trying to force it to play out like Dragonflight. They’re AoE interrupting a lot and not really using very much control. People are also dying a lot, which is being VERY harshly punished. Losing a over a minute to a full party wipe followed by another minute and a half to get back plus getting the boss or pack down to the same percentage again can be 4-5 minutes lost. That’s really, really harsh.
People also seem to think that 6 or 8 or whatever is actually a low keystone level early in the season - it’s not. Only a very small number of players have 10 in every keystone at this time.
We should expect the rate of myth gear being given in M+ should be similar to what is given in raids. In the past that very much hasn’t been the case. +20 was very easy compared to mythic raid bosses or even the last heroic boss, and before that it was even +15, which was so much easier it wasn’t even funny. This season appears to have fixed that. I think +10 has an appropriate difficulty now, unlike before, and I simply think people need to get better.
But it’s hard to get better when people are protective of their keys, which brings us back to the whole key depletion thing again.
- It makes people protective of their keys, causing them to exclude players who are new or play currently underperforming specs, meaning a lot of people don’t get to have fun.
- It makes it feel very toxic when people have to leave even when there’s a very good reason - a few days ago I got flamed because we had spent 2 hours in a completion run and had to leave 20 minutes earlier than expected (and we wouldn’t have made it anyway) due to train delays. I shouldn’t have to feel bad for doing that, but I did, and the people who had written “Completion” got pretty mad. Leaving a group after wiping for 2 hours should not be a moment of guilt - just of failure. They deserved another chance.
- Because the stakes are so high, people don’t have time to talk, and whenever a wipe occurs they feel like a lot of time has been wasted and they don’t really want to teach. Instead, frustrated yells and growls tend to fill the chatbox. Words like “seriously?” “wake up?” etc.
- Sometimes accidents just happen. I just did a M+ and my darn keyboard broke. I’ve since fixed it, but these things just happen. Obviously I can’t even tell my team about that because I don’t have a keyboard. xD It’s going to create a fail, I understand that, but it can’t cost the keyholder his key, That’s just not fair.
This key depletion thing has got to go. It’s creating a lot of toxicity. It always has as well.
It’s gotta be worse for dps players right now. Try getting into a key, decline, decline, decline - then you get in and wait ages for a tank or healer, for then the key to break in the first 5 mins or even worse just before the third or last boss.
But a tank or healer can just jump to another key pretty easy.
I have done M+ for years pugging up to KSH and this is the worst I’ve ever seen it. The first week or so was fine, and then it’s like dropping off a cliff.
A lot of dead keys thanks to Delve rewards superceding them, and you run into a very hard gate at +9. Thanks to the reward structure, anything below a 9 but after a 4 is pretty useless because you can’t upgrade past Hero gear.
I have never found it this hard to get into groups. Some of this is because Resto is so good this season that there’s less need for BL, but thanks to a combination of factors it’s dreadful.
I really think Blizzard need to look at this. DF S3 was very popular, but this is a huge slog at the moment.
They absolutely need to lower Myth track item level ( it’s one a week FFS even if you were to get 1 new Myth item a week it would take you the whole season to get geared anyway ) and the Gilded crest level.
+8 for Gilded, +9 for Myth seems reasonable.
Right now 8s are useless keys. You get the same gear in 7s.
1 Like
And you’re a healer, so the role itself is very desired even though holy paladin came out to be pretty bad compared to shammies or mws.
Now I’m playing a non-S tier dps without lust or br and I can only dispel poisons and diseases, and I sometimes spend an hour applying to +4s then another half an hour listing my own key only to apply to +4s for an hour or two again. Sure it’s not written on my application that I’m rarely below 1.2m overall - according to details, wcl tunes it back to around 800k for some reason - and that I know the dungeons, even some tech to several bosses, ie I can pretty much ignore most mechanics of the final boss in Ara-Kara between the void elf racial, transcendence, para and detox.
Sure I could write a note explaining all this, but it doesn’t really help since I don’t think anyone is really interested if I don’t severely outgear the dungeon or if I haven’t ++d it on at least 1-2 keys higher than the posting.
But this is also a people problem, most of them don’t enjoy challenge, and they also don’t want to brick their key only because they got some muppet who couldn’t find their butt with both hands and a map.
i wish they were bots sometimes.
look at how brave Brann is pumping in dvelves
and then you join random m+4 and have a warrior - class which is absolute beast on aoe below tank on aoe packs
yeah gimme bots for m+ and time of night and day .
and its not about being happy or unhappy - show me a normaly functioning adoult who can play video games on schedule - ofc streamers for whom its a job excluded 
for majority of wow playerbase its logging at fringe hours and playing whatever they can when they have those 2-3 hours to game in peace
Absolutely agree. This season of m+ is just so weird. The dragonflight seasons were a good balance of challenge and gearing smoothly. This season makes no sense and feels like a huge step backwards. I’m stuck in the 5-7 zone which has just been brutal. I’m well geared mostly hero gear on disc priest I’ve averaged 2800 most seasons and I don’t really try to push beyond that. This season feels brutal and just brick walled. One shot stuff on dps if an interrupt is missed etc. Usually I love m+ with obviously some frustrating points but nothing close to this. Big miss from blizzard this time and I’ve no idea why. The last few seasons have been pretty accessible but now this. It’s so weird. I guess it’s to increase potential growth time but I’ve been capped out on crests because I can’t do higher keys so frankly feels really pointless. What a shame…
Why imo is pretty evident.
15 second lost just for dying from +7. Keys are a joke if not for this affix. I seriously would like to see the clown thought it was going to be fun.
Fort + Tyra combo. People hate tyrannical, so they made sure to have it all weeks now.
Buggy xal affix. Pulling mobs,going into textures, overlapping with area denial mechanics.
A lot of super punishing overlaps in general from just boss mechanics. Like last boralus boss applying the dot + the tentacle instantly slamming. Or second dawnbreaker boss at a certain point doing high pulsing aoe + orb explosion.
And also imo, a lot of disliked dungeons in this rotation.
I listened to a random podcast with Growl and and some other people and apparently it’s easier to get myth track gear from mythic raid than it is from M+ 
shouldn’t it be the other way around?!
The only real issue i have with M+ is that gilded crests drop in 9s and upwards.
Move it to 8, or 7 for that matter. Its still a cap on it, so its not like our item level will suddenly explode.
Its only those running mythic raiding/+10s that have myth track gear anyway, so it would only lead to those having hero gear actually being able to upgrade it to max. Why is that such a bad thing.
Would ofc also make it possible to craft myth gear for people only doing 7/8 keys, but i don’t really look at that as an issue. Its not like you can have crafted piece in every single slot anyway.
Ok. I am still waiting to hear your excuse to be a towards others? “Hey Its m+ so let me curse your entire family tree and hope you suffer a painfully long death” - approved by Lillith? 
1 Like
Sometimes I think blizzard could be a bit more obvious what the mechanic is. I think this is done a bit better in ff14.
I think I have only EVER done 1 or 2 M+ and have no intention of EVER doing another…
I loved the old style HC farm since I started playing in TBC and think M+ was the worst addition to WoW ( until the new crafting system came along )
1 Like
you mean the one where they advised general popualtion to stop doing m+ stop raiding and just farm trash for mythic boes ?
yeah you know your game is failing hard when that actually makes a lot of sense as progression path
1 Like