Expansions, patterns and repetitions

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

Hello Everyone.

I was analysing some Horde patterns in WoW, when I stumbled against some things that tend to repeat over and over.
Some of them people have already realised, but I will still go through it so people understand where I am coming from.

This analysis comes as Horde player perspective.
Feel free to add more information or criticism if you feel like it.

Warchief dance:

1. Thrall (Normal) - Normal Jaina
2. Garrosh Hellscream (Villain) - Angry Jaina, Thrall comes
3. Vol’Jin (Normal) - Normal Jaina
4. Sylvanas (Villain) - Angry Jaina, Thrall comes

In this pattern we can see:

• After a normal Warchief, there always a comes a villain Warchief.
• The normal Warchief always chose the evil Warchief to replace him, by mistake.
• Jaina tends to be mad/berserk in the villain Warchief reign, which can only be understandable, Garrosh destroyed Theramore, killing many people she loved.
  Thrall usually comes in this expansions to calm her and try to set things straight again, which than sets a disturbing pattern: The Horde needs his shaman founder as his savior, when the villain Warchief is in power.
  Any doubts, look at who killed Garrosh.

WoTLK > Cataclysm pattern, for the Horde, military.

WoTLK set the first major military disaster for the modern Horde, while working with the Alliance to fight a greater evil…

From Wowpedia:
“The Alliance loses almost 5,000 soldiers and the Horde loses over 4,000”
The Alliance lost the [Highlord Bolvar Fordragon] and the [Fordragon Hold] forces.
The Horde lost [Warlord Dranosh Saurfang] and the [Kor’kron Vanguard].

History repeats himself and Legion sets another military disaster for the Horde, while working with the Alliance, to fight a greater evil.

In this battle:
From Wowpedia:

• Alliance forces, takes heavy casualties and Varian dies in combat.
• Horde forces, takes heavy casualties and Vol’Jin dies in Ogrimmar after being mortally wounded in the field of battle.

Cataclysm was when Garrosh rule was really starting to be seen, because Thrall was away.
While at war with the Alliance, he set the first use of what I call the big gun, a weapon so devastating that can turn the tides of war in your favour.
Also the brutality of the action may cause it to be considered a war crime.
Many Horde leaders like Vol’Jin, Baine , felt that the deployment of this weapon was a cowardly act, the lack of respect for prisoners of war didn’t help either.

History repeats himself and in BfA during Sylvanas reign as Warchief, the burning of Teldrassil, sets the Horde in a evil path, of no respect for civilians.

Use of Blight in the battle for Undercity, killing Horde troops in the process, resurrecting them as skeletons, another method seen as dishonourable.
After Teldrassil, Saurfang sees this action as the last straw and goes to try to kill himself fighting the Alliance.

Events between this two expansions:

• One major battle that involves cooperation of both sides against Legion forces, that ends in disaster and the Horde being blamed for it, due to betrayal, which usually spells retaliation by the Alliance military on Horde military in the next expansion which enrages the villain Warchief to take matters on to the next level of aggression.

Battle description:
WoTLK: Grand Apothecary Putress, blightned everyone with is plague.
He had sided with Varimathras. Because this two characters were connected to Sylvans, the Alliance initiated a revenge campaign.
Legion: The head of the Alliance secret service Mathias Shaw, was replaced by a Dreadlord.
Varian and Vol’Jin were tricked in to going to a death trap.
Because Sylvanas ordered the retreat and Varian died that was seen as an act of betrayal by the Alliance forces.

Order of events:

• Major military disaster, for Alliance and the Horde.
• Horde is to be blamed. (Unfair)

WotLK: Undercity is attacked by both factions, in retalaition to Varimathas actions.
Cataclysm: Camp Taraujo (civilians killed)

Legion: Stormheim attack on Sylvanas forces by Genn and Sky admiral Rogers.
BfA: Burning of Teldrassil, city of the Night Elves massive civilians casualties.
War crime.

Cataclysm: Thermore mana bomb, that destroys an entire city.
Use of means considered dishonourable
BfA: Siege of Undercity, use of Blight in Alliance and Horde forces, raising them as skeletons.
Use of means considered dishonourable

Catclysm: Dalaran purge by Jaina and Vereesa.
BfA: Battle of Dazar’alor.
The Zandalari loses half of their fleet, King Rastakhan is killed.
Jaina leads the forces (again).

Because of BfA is a current expansion, the analysis ends here.

Expansions going 1 to 4 than repeat pattern.

Let’s analyse WoW first 4 expansions:

1. TBC
2. WoTLK
3. Cataclysm
4. MoP

That repeats in the next expansions:

5. WoD
6. Legion
7. BfA

Pattern 1 TBC and WoD.

• Normal Warchief.
• Main theme the Dark Portal.
  Historically the Horde came through the Black portal brought by Medivh.
  I see this type of expansions as a celebration to that theme.
• Horde and Alliance going together, to fight a threat on the other side.
• Scenario: Draenor or AU Draenor.
• Bad character that will cause trouble, in the future.
  TBC: Garrosh Hellscream, chose as Thrall replacement, villain Warchief.
  WoD: AU Gul’Dan, came and summoned the Legion enough said.
• Horde, forces killing their own race.
  TBC: Fel Orcs, Kael’thas Sunstrider and his army.
  WoD: Historical figures of the Horde, embodied by the Iron Horde, Garrosh Hellscream.

Pattern 2 WoTLK and Legion.

• Normal Warchief.
• Fighting Legion armies.
  Historically Arhas and his scourge army, manipulated by the Dreadlord Tichondrius, destroyed Lordaeron and summoned Archimonde to Azeroth.
  I see this type of expansions as a celebration to that theme.
• New scenario, never seen before.
• Military cooperation between the Alliance and the Horde, in a major battle, against Legion forces, that ends in complete disaster and the loss of two major lore characters for both factions.
• Introduction of a hero class related to a major badass lore character:
  WoTLK: Arthas and his Death Knights.
  Legion: Illidan and his Demon Hunters.

Pattern 3 Cataclysm and BfA.

• Villain Warchief coming actually in power.
• Historically the Alliance and the Horde were in conflict during the first and second war for Azeroth control.
  I see this type of expansions as a celebration to that theme.
  “Bringing Warcraft to it’s roots.” said one of the developers.
• War on the Alliance.
• Azeroth as the scenario, for the war.
• Use of weapons to massively turn the battle in Horde favour during a battle, but considered dishonourable.
• War crimes: no respect for civilians.
• The growing disrespect for the Warchiefs actions leading to open rebellion.
  Introduction of new races that usually have bad blood with the opposite faction:
  Cataclysm: Goblins and Worgen.
  BfA: Nightborne, Highmountain Tauren, Zandalari, Void Elves, Lightforgef Draenei and Kul-Tyrans (For now).

Pattern 4 MoP and the next expansion.

• New scenario, in Azeroth.
• Fighting Old Gods influences.
  MoP: from Wowpedia
  “The sha (known as ikk to the [hozen] are physical manifestations of negative emotions — such as doubt, despair, fear, hatred, or anger — found in [Pandaria]”
  Next expansion (assumption): Old gods theme.
• Being told both Alliance and the Horde are to be blamed for the war.
  Feeling bad for the conflict.
• New race (skeleton) and new class.
  MoP: Pandaren as race and monk class.
  To be leveled from level 1.

Patern 4 is yet to be tested.
But looking at the other 3 patterns we can assume that MoP will repeat itself in the next expansion.

From this analysis we can now make build future predictions on what the future hold, this is what i came up with:

Future Warchiefs:

Jump to 1:45 and analyse the characters behind Vol’Jin:
On the left side of the screen: Sylvanas and Gallywix the leaders that did everything Garrosh asked of them.
On the right side of the screen: Thrall, behind him, Baine and Lor’themar.

My opinion: Four leaders made to rule, four leaders made to die.
In case we ran out of race leaders, we have the Allied races, Princess Talanji, Mayla Highmountain, First Arcanist Thalissra and Geya to be named future Warchiefs.

Future Warchief dance:

1. Baine (Normal) - Normal Jaina
2. Gallywix (Villain) - Angry Jaina, Thrall comes
3. Lor’themar (Normal) - Normal Jaina

This is how far my analysis goes.
Sorry for the long post.

As always this is just my opinion, open for debate

Thanks for your attention.
Cheers.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Jaina during Sylvanas’ reign has certainly not been angry all things considered, didn’t you see how she was drooling over Thrall’s arm?

Sure she had some badass moments… Such as in the (literal) first teaser of Battle for Azeroth, where she wisely agreed with her father that peace is as frail as a dream, and yet Jaina has basically reverted back to her Warcraft III self. Which is so, so boring.

Thrall usually comes in this expansions to calm her and try to set things straight again

And I hate that so much. Jaina should build her own future by herself, she shouldn’t have to be rescued by Thrall every single time that she has an emotional trauma, which is basically every time a new patch rolls out. That’s so toxic to be honest, how Jaina always needs Thrall to help her because she alone is incapable of using her brain.

Future Warchief dance:

Baine (Normal) - Normal Jaina
Gallywix (Villain) - Angry Jaina, Thrall comes
Lor’themar (Normal) - Normal Jaina

Don’t take this personal, but I strongly dislike the narrative you are suggesting here. I find it borderline disgusting in fact. Jaina should be her own independent character, she shouldn’t flip-flop depending on whoever sits on the Horde throne. That’s just a spit in the face of us Alliance players who want to be taken seriously, because how can we be taken seriously if our active leader (because Anduin is busy doing Anduin things in Stormwind) is basically a switch that goes on and off depending on the Warchief? That’s terrible storytelling and character development, to be honest.

[Wimbert-die-aldor]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Don’t take this personal, but I strongly dislike the narrative you are suggesting here. Jaina should be her own independent character, she shouldn’t flip-flop depending on whoever sits on the Horde throne.

Well, at least there would be a method to her flip-flopping madness then… The flip-flops are there either way.

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Don’t take this personal, but I strongly dislike the narrative you are suggesting here. I find it borderline disgusting in fact. Jaina should be her own independent character, she shouldn’t flip-flop depending on whoever sits on the Horde throne. That’s just a spit in the face of Alliance players who want to be taken seriously, because how can we be taken seriously if our active leader (because Anduin is doing… stuff… in Stormwind) is basically a switch that goes on and off depending on the Warchief? That’s terrible storytelling and character development, to be honest.

I agree.

But my conclusion comes from my analyses.
I didn’t made this pattern: Activision Blizzard made it.

Nothing would made my life happier than to be proven wrong.
I see the villain Warchief expansions as the coming of the Dark angel of destruction for the Horde, with every expansion raising up the War crime level.
We didn’t had this disturbing cinematic in Catclysm:

Cinematic: “Old Soldier”

Cheers.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

The funny thing is that, looking just at the CGI cinematics, this is literally a Horde story. Saurfang is the protagonist, Baine and Thrall join him later on, Anduin is a sidekick who helps Saurfang once, and the Alliance is literally just Saurfang’s faceless antagonist/anti-hero with no depth to them.

In short, how long do we have to wait before seeing a full CGI -ALLIANCE- cinematic?

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Pattern 2 WoTLK and Legion.

• Normal Warchief.
• Fighting Legion armies.
  Historically and his scourge army, manipulated by the Dreadlord Tichondrius, destroyed Lordaeron and summoned Archimonde to Azeroth.
  I see this type of expansions as a celebration to that theme.
• Military cooperation between the Alliance and the Horde, in a major battle, against Legion forces, that ends in complete disaster and the loss of two major lore characters for both factions.

Well probably during WoTLK, Legion pattern expansion.
Horde players complained that a lot of cinematic were Alliance driven in Legion, because of Velen (Draeinei racial leader), Khadgar (Human), Illidan (Night Elf) while stating Horde has only attention during faction wars.
I know Alliance players stated they were neutral characters but I think:

• Horde gets attention in Expansions such as Cataclysm and BfA the pattern 3 expansion.
• Alliance gets attention on expansions where a hero is required, to fight the legion, pattern 2, remember this message ?
  I think it was for the Alliance players:
  https://youtu.be/6YlDdOV7uV0

If everything goes as I think will have:

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Let’s analyse WoW first 4 expansions:

1. TBC
2. WoTLK
3. Cataclysm
4. MoP

That repeats in the next expansions:

5. WoD
6. Legion
7. BfA

8. MoP 2 2020-2022 Old Gods.
9. TBC 2 Dark portal theme: AU universe, Mag’Har Orcs and Yrel 2022-2024
10. WOTLK 2 The return of Sargeras. He wasn’t defeated remember ? 2024-2026

That’s my opinion.
Cheers.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

I meant full CGI cinematics like Lost Honor and Old Soldier. The Alliance had none of that in Legion.

To be fair, the Alliance do appear as extras in some of those cinematics, like Anduin appearing in Lost Honor to free Saurfang, and the Kaldorei appearing in Old Soldier as ashes, but aside from that no, there is hardly any Alliance representation in those cinematics. Then we have the Thrall and Saurfang cinematic that is 100% about the Horde, not even a mention of the Alliance.

Those characters like Illidan and Khadgar were not affiliated with the Alliance, that is just a fact. I know it’s hard to accept for some people, that just because there is a Night Elf hybrid slapped in a cinematic it does NOT mean that it is an Alliance cinematic.

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

Fair enough.

Than I am afraid there is no room for that.

Remember the cinematic are Horde, but they are not by any means positive.
We are told constantly how bad we should feel, for our actions as Saurfang.

Again I don’t write this narrative, Activision Blizzard does.

For what you asked, to happen, the circle has to be broken.
But honestly after Burning of Teldrassil I lost faith in a more different approach.
I would call it the lazy approach.

Cheers.

[Wimbert-die-aldor]

Oh god… I can just imagine an Addon driven by emotional cinematics about Anduin or Jaina… Please, dear Blizzard, no!

Imagine a coup against Anduin, while the Alliance turns more brutal…fair enough… but we are told the story through the eyes of god-king anduin, whose wisdom was rejected and who has to rise again to save the world…

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

I literally never even suggested that. I suggested a cinematic devoted to anything about the Alliance, which is fairly broad, No?

Gnomes are out of the question though, because no one cares about them except the 30 people who play them, and we would not see them anyway.

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

A few months ago, I made this thread:

Can lore dictate faction balance ?

Hello Everyone. I apologize, for the third thread I am creating today. But I am very interested in creating another topic, after a discussion in another thread. In your opinion: Does lore, dictate player balance ? I mean does the fact, the lore dictates a faction to be chaotic and other to be lawfull, has any influence on peoples choice ? I mean not only our case, but the player population in general. Or is PVE and PvP aspects of the game, more important ? Consider A faction as chaotic, B fac…

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

Gameplay trumps lore almost every time.

The majority of players will gravitate towards what they consider cool, OP regarding pvp and/or pve, or a combination of both.

And:

@Arctur-argent-dawn

Generally the Alliance and Horde have roughly the same population, but in the 120 level tier (which is the only one that matters, let’s be real), the Horde has much more players than the Alliance. That’s because it is clear by now that the Horde has much better racials, hence why most players gravitate towards the Horde for the end-game content, and indeed only the Mythic scene is dominated by Horde guilds right now. So if you play this game with the mindset of “I want to clear raids and succeed in PvP”, then obviously you will most likely go Horde, since its racials are vastly superior. it is therefore not a surprise that Horde queues for Battlegrounds are also generally much longer than Alliance, and that Alliance players in War Mode are usually as rare as Gnomish presence in the lore. Lore plays no role here.

From this analysis, why would Activision Blizzard, change the lore setup ?
When gameplay, trumps the lore ?

• BfA was marked as the fastest selling expansion.
• Legion, was considered to not have surpassed WoD in terms of profits.
• WoD was considered a selling success.

So there you go.
If lore was important, I think they would had already done something about it, like changing their pattern setup, but they don’t.
Because it isn’t, they just stick to their patterns.

I always suspected, why a prized New York writter as Christie Golden, would come with such a unoriginal writing.
I mean we already had the villain Warchief narrative in Cataclysm …

Now it makes sense if she is being given a set of rules she can’t move away from.
And this has already been suggested by other players.
When they said she can’t be responsible for the entire BfA story.
Surely she can be responsible for writing Anduin as being wiser than his years and the saviour of Azeroth,but that’s about it.
That is pattern 3:

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Pattern 3 Cataclysm and BfA.

• Villain Warchief coming actually in power.
• Historically the Alliance and the Horde were in conflict during the first and second war for Azeroth control.
  I see this type of expansions as a celebration to that theme.
  “Bringing Warcraft to it’s roots.” said one of the developers.
• War on the Alliance.
• Azeroth as the scenario, for the war.
• Use of weapons to massively turn the battle in Horde favour during a battle, but considered dishonourable.
• War crimes: no respect for civilians.
• The growing disrespect for the Warchiefs actions leading to open rebellion.
  Introduction of new races that usually have bad blood with the opposite faction:
  Cataclysm: Goblins and Worgen.
  BfA: Nightborne, Highmountain Tauren, Zandalari, Void Elves, Lightforgef Draenei and Kul-Tyrans (For now).

For me this what I wanted:

@Aepher-azjolnerub

I don’t know if Blizzard has the balls to do it, but I would love it if they made an anti-hero faction. I’m pretty sure many of us would love to be able to join the actual dark side.
That way there will be no more complaints that the Horde should be less like this and more like that. No need to mix incompatible races anymore. I’m pretty sure that, objectively speaking, the Tauren have more things in common with the Night Elves than they do with the Goblins or the Forsaken(Cenarion Circle, anyone?).

But considering the 4 patterns they use in the expansions, I don’t see that happening.

There is hope, for me at least.

It is being discussed in General Forum that Warmode is revealing to be unbalanced, because of faction population.

Horde and Alliance may come together as one faction.
So that PVP works not as in Battlegrounds, where you have Horde Vs Alliance.
But like Arenas, where you can fight your own faction.
This would allow dungeon time queues to be lowered, with crossfaction queues as well.

Also regarding the four patterns it would allow a civil war in pattern 3 to happen more easily and to pattern 1 and 2 to happen even more easily, Horde and Alliance working together.
Pattern 1, going through the dark portal, with Kadgar, WoD cinematic anyone ?
Pattern 2, fighting together Legion forces which ultimately results in military disaster.
Wrathgrate and Broke shore anyone ?

Why ?
Image the new United Nations of Azeroth having to deal with internal conflicts all the time.
It always ends Alliance and Horde rebels Vs villain Warchief.

And:
Now the Alliance faction can be portrayed in more cinematics as they are now part of the Horde.

That’s just my thoughts.

Cheers.

[Araphant-defias-brotherhood (Araphant)]

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Now the Alliance faction can be portrayed in more cinematics as they are now part of the Horde.

Lok’tur Ogur? Did I say it right?

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

watches almost all of wotlk, legion intro, broken shore, anduins momentum, all of the bfa Jaina videos(10), half of mop and the WoD Yrel videos

Are you guys on medication? Do we play the same game? When was the alliance not featured in the cinematics?

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

@Amazoner-kul-tiras

Now the Alliance faction can be portrayed in more cinematics as they are now part of the Horde.

Yikes. Absolutely not. I chose Alliance because I want to be Alliance, not part of the Horde.

Hear my suggestion instead: The Alliance has their own storyline, and the Horde as their own storyline. Translated, it means that we should be dumping Saurfang and his rebellion, and be on our way to Orgrimmar while the Horde factions are fighting each other in Thunder Bluff.

I might actually stop playing retail if the Alliance is assimilated into the Horde. Thank God they are making Classic.

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Thank God they are making Classic.

That’s why I have been ranting, that Warcraft 3 made more sense.

I don’t have problems with Blood Elves in the Horde.
But every time I play them, the tribalistic Horde feeling isn’t there.
The Alliance feeling is.

Maybe that’s why I never thought of playing Alliance.
Why would I play Alliance, when I can do that as a Horde player ?
Don’t get me wrong, I like the contrast of playing a Elf in a Orc faction, but not when their aesthetics becomes the majority of the played races on the Horde.

I don’t like is when their lore is just forgotten, when the Villain Warchief comes to power, they should alongside the Tauren to be the acting opposing force to the chaotic Orc and Forsaken lore.

Another reason, I don’t play Alliance is:
I miss the internal conflicts.

Horde has the 3 narrative.

• Chaotic: Orcs, Forsaken and Goblins.
• Lawful: Tauren.
• Neutral: Darkspear Trolls, Blood Elves and Pandaren.

And has the Alliance aesthetics as well:
Forsaken: Ruins of Lordaeron, former kingdom of humans. Arthas kingdom.
Blood Elves: used to fight along side the Alliance. The Alliance helped them fight the Amani Trolls.
All 3 Windrunner sisters are/were with Human companions/husband’s.

I always felt like, asking myself this question as a Horde player:

Why have the Alliance as a opponent, when the Horde has plenty of internal conflicts already ?
You don’t need a enemy when you have your own to worry about.
Garrosh iron fist period anyone ?

This is written on the lore as well in the Horde origins.
Correct me if I am wrong:
The fact that the Orc clans came finally together it was what allow them to finally build the Horde.

This was when only Orcs were part of the Horde.
Now look at it: United Nations of Kalimdor + Northern part of Eastern Kingdoms

Cheers.

[Iambaine-darkmoon-faire]

To the Alliance among you, my name is spelled ‘Baine’ with an ‘i’. ‘Bainduin’ is also acceptable for the future state of affairs.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Blanduin, you mean, and if the Alliance ceases to exist by the end of this expansion, I am ditching retail for Classic, and many others will too.

[Iambaine-darkmoon-faire]

Oh Legacy of Daelin, I haven’t even logged into the game in months. It’s uninstalled on my computer.

[Amazoner-kul-tiras]

According to Bellular gaming, he thinks, that will happen in patch 9.0.

So my gess is:

• it’s an assumption.
• Patch 9.0, is too far away. Maybe on the next expansion.
• Sylvanas will still be the Warchief of the Horde in the next expansion, as Garrosh was in MoP.

Cheers.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

I don’t understand Blizzard’s logic. They promoted “faction pride” in this expansion, and I got very hyped for the Alliance, but then they remove the Alliance at the end of the expansion? Excuse me, what? Where is the logic in that? So I hope Bellular is wrong to be honest.