Are you guys roleplaying or something?
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Yes go away Zhilin! >:c /shoo
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Iāve got drinking to do anyway. >:(
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Vulpera have entire threads talking about peeing in peoples backpacks.
Not sure what you have learned since joining the Horde.
Youāre practically a race of gypsies anyway. So would not be comfortable in the cities.
You really should read the novel before the storm.
Anduin Wrynn did attempt a little pow wow between some of the surviving Lordaereons and their Undead Kin. But due to a power conflict between Sylvannas and the Desolate Council. SYLVANNAS had the forsaken all murdered. They chose to leave and try to stay with their living descendants.
Sylvannas also murderd Talia Menethil. Technically she was not a part of the Alliance. So the Alliance had no reason to prevent her death or avenge her. But now the blood of Menethil has been extinguished. Making it more difficult to return Undercity/Lordaeron to the living survivors.
Camp Taurojoā¦Was a military target. However reports will show that the villagers were murdered by the Quillboar in the area and not the Alliance. The Horde forces should have been there for their villages.
It is not vengeance (necessarily) against the Horde. But making sure that some actions do not go unpunished.
Such as the Zandalari naving making an unprovoked attack against the Alliance. Such actions could not go unanswered. Especially during a time of war where the Zandalari could tip the balance of power. So the Alliance had to put them down. Their Navy and their King. As for its soldiersā¦They simply got in our way.
It is not hatred. But caution - vigiilance and understanding.
Burning Night Elf children alive in their own homes. This is what the Horde is.
2:31 time stamp. This is what the Horde is. Curse of undeath is one thing but tortured and broken into submission is another. Baine Bloodhoof is just an anomoly.
Earlier generations of the Horde blamed their actions on the blood of Mannaroth. But it only unlocked what was already there.
Those entire āāthreadsāā And those special incidents only happens to people who cannot read the title of the thread āāVulpera apperciation threadāā You come into that thread to do the oppesite. Donāt be surprised you get an equal replyā¦
I didnāt read all of it I will admit. But it was in that very same book. That Sylvanas and the Forsaken had at first attempted to reach out to the Alliance only to be met with no reply. Before she joined the Horde.
I am not at all going to defend Sylvanas beyond this point in any way shape or form. Past the fact she did try to reach out to the Alliance before joining the Horde with the Forsaken.
She reckonized Calia as a glimmer of hope for the forsaken. To reunite with their families and loved ones.
But Sylvanas didnāt trust the Alliance. Anduin might of been a good āāLittle lionāā But the future of the Alliance and their ways? She had no faith in.
Alliance fake news and propagenda!!! >:c
And what about your actions? What about your crimes? You believe they are all justified even when it happens to none of who they where concerned. You said it your selfā¦
I see no difference in you vengeful Alliance of today, Than the Blood lusting Horde of old.
Curiousity brings one there. But Vulpera still are not accepted by a lot of the Horde.
It was odd to see that this is what Vulpera do with their time. Discuss whose bags to pee in.
Okay. If you did not read the book.
The YouTuber Nobbel87 covered it.
It is cannon that Anduin arranged the meeting to see if humans and forsaken can coexist. While the surviving people of Lordaeron some that went to Stormwind others to Kultiras.
While they were living and working in Stormwind they never officially joined the Alliance. However not all Forsaken were content with Sylvannas rule. Those that chose to try and flee Sylvannas were shot down by Sylvannas Dark Rangers. Undead that ONLY follow her orders.
So. All of the Forsaken were murdered by the Horde. Sylvannas was not yet ready to start the 4th War against the Alliance that the Horde was defeated in.
Calia Menethil was the last of the royal line of Lordaeron. So with her unprovoked murder by Sylvannas as Sylvannas shot Calia herself. It makes the living Lordaereons that less hopeful about restoring their nation.
Little Lion was just the patronising title as Varian Wrynn was not someone the Horde could underestimate. Sylvannas was more cautious about Genn Greymane that was moreā¦militaristic. However Anduin made his own choices.
Incorrect. The Quillboar were the ones that actually killed the civilians of Camp Taurojo. The Alliance are not responsible for their deaths.
Yes. Do tell us of the ācrimesā of the Alliance. We might have a few āenthusiasticā people like Grand Marshall Othmar that was āmeanā to the Blood Elves once. Oh? The purging of Dalaran is that it?
Historically speaking the Blood Elves Sun Reavers violated Dalaranās neutrality and aided the Horde war efforts and its Warchief to use Dalaran to secure the divine bell. So an annoyed Jaina Proudmoore simply āEvictedā the Horde from Dalaran. Those that CHOSE to take up arms and fight were pacified.
The others that did not leave after their eviction notice and chose not to fight were simply detained in the prisons of the violet hold.
When the Alliance are in positions of power. The Horde are granted mercy. Horde children do not have to worry about the Alliance murdering them. But Alliance children can not say the same of the Horde.
When Rhastakhan was put down the Alliance force left the city despite the Horde forces chasing us.
Vengeful Alliance you say. After the bombing of Theramore Jaina Proudmoore could have drowned Orgrimmar but chose not to in the end. A few soldiers were more passionate on the conflicts at Pandaria. But no. We are not the Horde. The Horde started the 4th War. The Alliance ended it.
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Well in this caseā¦ Curiosity pissed on the cat. If it canāt behave it self like a decent person. It gets indecency in return.
Yes it is cannon that Anduin the little lion attempted to mend thingsā¦ I agree on that and I really hoped it would work out. But its also cannon that Sylvanas and the Forsaken had been hunted enough by the Humans too. And that they tried to re join the Alliance before joining the Horde as well.
Unless I had a fever dream on Volādun cacti juice againā¦ I remember that being in there as well.
Calia is still aliveā¦ Even in her undeath. She is still the heir to the throne of Lordaeron. And we still have to see if the Scarlets crusade āāpropegandaāā about her daugther is just propeganda or truth or not.
But remember it was us the players who opposed Calia becoming the next Forsaken leader back then remember? Blizzard listensā¦
On the Horde side of that questlineā¦ Didnāt we finish it by killing āāThe butcher of taurajoāā as Horde players? An Alliance commander ridden by guilt?
It was literally one dude wasnāt it? Every Sinādorei was put to the blade and held responsible afterwards by Jaina proudmoore.
When the Horde has been in a posistion of power. It was fueled by fell blood and burning legion corruption. Or the damn literal satan of warcraft the jailer.
The Horde has never been in an equal moral ground for their actions as the Alliance have been. Until nowā¦
And still what about all the other races of the Horde that joined it to survive? The Alliance slaughtered them all the same. Based of history they had with the Orcs.
That is odd. It must be a Vulpera thing.
Again with the little lion thing. That is just Sylvannas being weird again.
The Forsaken will always be seen as abominations. While they might have deceived the Horde that they are different to the Scourge. The Alliance wants to make sure that our dead stays dead. So it is more of a case of euthenasia. To return the dead back to being dead. But for Undead they have a strong will to āsurviveā so on and on the war against undeath continues.
To be food for the Undead or turned into Undead is not something the Alliance would choose. The Gilneans of Silverpine Forest chose the curse of the Worgen than to be murdered and then forced into Undeath by the Horde.
Necromancy - Undeath. For all of the talks of āHonourā among the Horde when it is convenient for them they turn a blind eye to undeath and necromancy. This is one of the many things that seperates the Alliance from the Horde.
You should make sense. Calia Menethil has become the same thing that her brother Arthas has become. Despite the power source. Yet another Undead abomination that should be returned to death.
The bloodline of Menethil is gone. The Undead of Lordaeron have been looking to the High Elf Sylvannas their Banshee Queen for too long for them to ever welcome the reign of another Menethil.
Butcher isā¦overzealous. The overly enthusiastic people of the Alliance I believe were dealt with.
Blood Elves violated the neutrality of Dalaran. Canāt claim that in a city dedicated to the study and understanding of magic. That other Mages will not notice the actions of one Elf? To believe that āit was literally one dudeā is foolishness.
Jaina did over react as Lorthemar Theron was in negotiations with High King Varian Wrynn for the Blood Elves to return to the Alliance.
But Jaina drove them back to the Horde.
TWICE the Horde CHOSE to drink the blood of Mannaroth. Horde are not children. they are accountable for their choices.
The Horde were originally a Shamanistic people. They CHOSE to ignore the elements and once the elements left them they replaced them with the Fel and the Shadow. The Horde destroyed Draenor using the Scepter of Sargeras.
I agree. Horde sacrificed the body and soul of Draenai children to enter Azeroth. When Stormwind fell the Horde slaughtered all of the defenceless people they could find, The Horde rounded up villages of humans as fuel for the Fel.
There is a lot of Horde atrocities that they just keep doing.
The Alliance aided the Nightborne in returning their city to them and saving their people from being fuel for the Fel and they spat in Alliance faces by siding with the Horde.
The Alliance helped to reunite the splintered clans of the Highmountain Tauren and they spat in Alliance faces leading an operation that set fire to Stormwind.
The Zandalari Trolls. Were a problem when they ressurected Lei Shen but until their fleet launched an unprovoked attack against an Alliance fleet they were left alone.
The Maghar Orcs were defeated by the might of High Exarch Yrel and chose not to side with their kin and embrace the Light. So they came to Azeroth to pick a fight with the Alliance.
Vulpera? Meh they got in the way of SI7 operations. But it was war time.
Darkspear were the runt of the litter with Gurubashi that is internal Troll conflicts.
Tauren were being defeated by the Centaur. Was it not for the Horde they would be extinct.
BilgeWater Cartel Goblins were made slaves by Gallywix. But did free Thrall.
Forsaken joined the Horde for convenience. Outside of the Horde they alone would have been defeated long ago.
Horde propaganda makes the Alliance to be butchers. Weāre not.
Yeahā¦ We are not going to stand by and just subscribe to this ideaā¦ If you donāt mindā¦
There could of been a time where the Human forsaken could have been left alone to live out their undeath in peace to their final end. But you wouldnāt even give them that. And so here we areā¦
She is was not resurrected by the necrotic realm of deathās power. But that of the Naaru and the holy light. The only similar about them is that they are both Undead. But Calia is still here. And a part of her remaining peopleā¦ Who mind you there are more of than there are āālivingāā remnants of Lordearon left. You believe all of the remaining people of Lordearon should be put to death. So that some small group of survivors of the Scourge can live upon the ruins.
The Forsaken could of been left alone to live out the rest of their undeath in peaceā¦ But you couldnāt even give them that muchā¦ Thanks to your prejudice ways.
Garrosh Hellscream did only have one colleberator to steal the focusing iris amongst the Sunreaverā¦ Thats just a fact. Most of the Sunreavers had no idea of what role Dalaran had played until Jaina brought the Judge and the jury and executioner upon them all to control the situastion.
twice the Orcs you mean ā¦Choose to do that. Not the Hordeā¦ The Horde are no longer just only the Orcs.
Tyrande made it perfectly clear she was going to destroy the Night well. Before she charged the city of Suramar. This would off killed the Nightborne or turned them into wretched and you know this. What other choice did they have?
They came to survive the High excarch. The Alliance had nothing to do with their arrival.
You can bad mouth the rest of us all you want. But none of us had anything to do with your conflict with the Orcs before you made it so!
I will explain it this way. The Scourge are by design a weapon against Azeroth to weaken Azeroth and its forces for when the Burning Legion will come and destroy it.
Both Alliance and Horde once banded together to stop them.
After Lordaeron fell Silvermoon was the next victim of Arthas Kulthuuzad and the Scourge.
During the Siege of Orgrimmar for the Horde version Lorthemar Theron and Sylvannas make landfall after the defeat of the Sha of Pride.
Should the group wipe then Sylvannas raises Lorthemar into Undeath.
Thomas Zelling betrayed his people and country even though the Horde was at war against Kul Tiras and murdered defenceless civilians when they attacked Brennedam in Stormsong Valley.
Timestamp 28 minutes. The man he once was died. He would never harm his family but when raised into Undeath something else came back.
The Burning Legion specializes in the destruction of worlds and the extinction of species.
The Horde can pretend they donāt see the Forsaken for what they have become but the Alliance will not.
The people of Lordaeron are the living. Their nation is gone - their country is in ruins - the line of Menethil is extinguished. Lordaereons are living among the Kul Tirans and Stormwind and other places.
Had Undercity been retaken then Lordaeron will have been returned to the living Lordaereons.
The Forsaken are Undead an offshoot of the Scourge. The Forsaken are aggressive and make incursions on other territories spreading plague to kill the living. Once at the Wrathgate then again at the battle for the Undercity/Lordaeron.
Jaina Proudmoore gave them a choice. Those that chose to take up arms were pacified. Those that did not take up arms were imprisoned.
Dalaran was not aligned with the Alliance. The Alliance are not responsible for what some call the āPurge of Dalaranā.
Her actions interfered with negotiations for the Blood Elves to rejoin the Alliance.
Orcs can not be separated from the Horde. Which is why Warlords of Draenor was a HORDE expansion as it was returning to the origins of the Horde and the Warlords that still shape the Horde and made it what it is today.
Incorrect. Those that played through the Legion expansion will remember that players assissted the Nightborne to find a cure for their withered state and no longer dependent on the NightWell.
It was apparently because Tyrande said mean words to them. Mean words does not change the assistance that the Alliance provided. They could have chose not to spit in the faces of their benefactors.
Bad mouth? It was just history.
Survival is a strong word. The Maghar was given a choice to embrace the Light. Some Orcs chose to do just that, others chose not to and was defeated by her forces. The Maghar are too weak to defeat High Exarch Yrel so they kept falling back and fled.
The Ogres knew this so refused to side with them only for the Maghar to betray the Ogres.
You are correct. The Alliance defeated the Iron Horde and left. The Maghar chose to pick a fight against the Alliance unprovoked. Of course the Alliance will answer their challenge.
That little spec of dispair that shot out of him? Is this supposed to be your example? The Undead are raised by shadow magic. Made to serve the Lich king. But the Forsaken have a free will. Zelling was not a mindless undeadā¦ Infact he remained very much a human. Until his family treated him as not.
What all five of them still alive or what? I am sorry I mean no offense to the Survivors of the Scourge but I still disagree with how you wish to put the Forsaken all to the pyre so that some few remnants can dance happily on their fallen Ruins.
Be that as it may. It is hypocrisy to say the leastā¦ To hold all the Horde accountable at first for what happen in Dalaran at the hands of one traitor. To then turn around and proclaim Jainaās actions was her own and not that of the Alliance in the next second.
And the Horde entire rejected it. Apart from the Garrosh loyalist. They are not the whole of the Horde, And far from the only Horde
There was no cure to the withered situastion was it? They found an alternative source to the Nightwell. Tyrande would have destroyed that all the same had she caught wind of it.
You are all truly as hopeless as they all sayā¦ Alliance paladin. Carry onā¦ See how many friends your āāHistoryāā lessons will make you in the future.
Unless they can avoid making a villainous warchief or horde leader I hope they donāt. Turalyon as a scarlet crusade type zealot is a cool idea to start one tho
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After she massacred them
The Horde have unfortunately been written to uncritically succumb do their warchief masters, and we see how the Hordeās approach to coexistence with the Alliance changes from Thrall ā Garrosh ā Volājin ā Sylvanas.
There is always a threat, always something to rally together against. One does not need a Horde to be that target.
If having a too diverse pool of races within a faction is a problem, how come the Horde overcame that issue? This only leaves two ideological options:
- The Horde never functioned to begin with, hence itās existence as a faction should never had been canon.
- Race diversity is not a problem, thus the argument about the races and people of the Horde and the alliance being too different is invalid.
The Alliance dismantling the Horde in the aftermath of Siege of Orgrimmar would result in a faction merge. After all, the races did banded together for safety and cooperation, and this is now something the non-orcish races would seek in the Alliance.
For the playability of the Orcs as a race they would be allowed to join too on an individual basis on the premise that they seek a peaceful coexistence with their former enemies.
Of course they do, āmuh Hordeā and āmuh Allianceā, causing the stagnation of the sociopolitical development on Azeroth and making the written story more archaic for every expansion.
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The man that his family knew is dead. He continued to assist the Horde in their war as they continued to kill the Kul Tiran people.
There are more than 5. The novel āBefore the Stormā does describe a sizeable gathering of some Lordaereonās that chose to come from Stormwind.
Talia Fordragon is also a Lordaereon as is Bolvar. Other Lordaereons would have been sent to Kul Tiras.
The actual number of surviving Lordaereonās is still unknown but they can reproduce and rebuild their numbers. The dead just will not let go of their claim and would murder the surviving remnants of Lodaereons but the Alliance will not allow it.
It was not all of the Horde Jaina Proudmoore held accountable it was the Sunreavers that violated its neutrality.
The Alliance was not involved. The Silver Covenant are a force of High Elves. The High Elves are not officially an Alliance force. So yes the āpurge of Dalaranā was not something that the Alliance had any part in.
Jainaās actions actually interfered with Alliance interests at the time.
Nazgrim is a Horde general. Always has been always will be. He even appeared at the Horde Omregar event where he partied with the Orcs.
A Horde civil war does not mean that they are not all Horde.
It was this exact situation that Voljin tried to prevent/mitigate/minimize during the Siege of Orgrimmar. Horde killing Horde.
That is incorrect. The withered situation was completely cured. It was done so before the combined elvish led forces could begin the assault on the NightWell.
The Alliance assisted the Nightborne to find a permanent solution to their Nightwell addiction. If I remember correctly it came down to a fruit, then every week you fed the fruit to more and more NightBorne who were permanently cured and no longer withered.
Dark Irons and friendsā¦ We prefer to be left alone on our mountain. Yeah we will scrap with the Bronzebeards and Wildhammers every now and then. Both clans too scared to 1 v 1 us. So aye we will just take them both.
But there should be a wee bit more of a reason to venture far from our mountain. Turns out the Horde likes a good scrap as well.
The Maghar was given a choice. They have kin that they chose to abandon. Just because their kin CHOSE to embrace the Light. Who now peacefully coexist with High Exarch Yrel and her regime.
None would want a repeat of the atrocities wrought by the Iron Horde. Especially how the Shadowmoon fed the souls of their people to the Dark Star or how the Shadow Council gorged themselves on the Draenai dead and created the bloated abomination that is Teron Gorefiend.
Join me or die. How noble of her if your going to ignore facts as always why are you here?
If the tree from the Arcanādor and itās fruits where to be felled and the Nightwell destroyed. Wouldnāt the Nightborne revert to their withered state?
The nightborne cut off from the Nightwell could survive off the fruit of the tree. How is that a cure? If that tree dies, And they can no longer use its fruits. Then they are back all where they first started. I wouldnāt consider that a cure.
I am done with this. Your siezable gathering of Lordaeron survivors arguements be damned.
And we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I think that is exactly what a civil war means.
That they are not all the same.
There is always a consistency that remains throughout every era of Horde Warchief.
By the way Voljin has no problem with Undeath as long as it is done to the Alliance. When the Alliance assisted in the Darkspear rebellion as they were preparing for the Siege of Orgrimmar he made that well known.
Battle for Azeroth provided something unique. Individual agency. The Alliance had their own thing to sort out on Kul Tiras while the Horde has their own issues to resolve of Zandalar.
Too often there is some ultimate evil and an ultimate ultimate evil that forces the Alliance and Horde to hold hands (team up) to fight against.
Could just let us go back to do our own thing.
The different factions was part of the foundation on which the roughly 19 years franchise was built upon. Some would see said foundation destroyed. Now there are no factions anymore. Yes other races joined but there were still unique things that made them Alliance or Horde still things that saw to the growth of each respective faction.
Now silly ideas from players would see that undone.
Keep the Alliance as Alliance and Keep the Horde as Horde.
There are no Orcs in the Alliance just as Humans should not be part of the Horde. As well as the other races.
blah blah blah blah blah. Faction pride have been a consistent thing that Blizzard as a company got correctly
But yet how are other āMaghar Orcsā able to not only embrace the Light but come to peacefully coexist with the Draenai and High Exarch Yrelās regime?
Typical Horde. Turn a blind eye to all of past Horde atrocities. Ignore the mass graves created. Right?
The Alliance left Draenor the Yrel and the remnants of the Iron Horde after the threat was neutralised and Archimonde was defeated. What they did after that was up to them.
But yes. Their Kin could convince them to accept the Light.
What should the Draenai do? Wait for the Horde to rise in strength again?
Horde in position of power are cruel - merciless.
High Exarch Yrel has to think of the interests of her people.
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Typical moltensage blame the horde for the old corrupted hordes mistake or you just ignoring they were defeated in the second war. Thralls horde is different