-> Feedback thread with the goal of increasing Arena Participation! <-

Hey guys!

I’ve taken on the task to create a huge feedback thread on things that both me and the community wants to see change with the goal of increasing Arena PvP participation in upcoming Classic expansions.

I’m a fan of the game and I’ve been playing it for 20 years with Classic being my main focus since the release of TBC. I stream Classic Arenas and have the unique possibility to interact with the Arena Community on a daily and I would consider myself to have a well educated opinion on what would be good for the game mode.

I have good knowledge as I’ve played at the very top of the PvP leaderboards for 15 years straight and I’ve had wide success in both AWC & CAT tournaments since 2013. I probably have some of the most Arenas played in the entire world so hopefully that qualifies me as a person that knows what I’m talking about.

This post will be long because I want to be elaborative. I’m passionate about Arenas and I’ve never seen somebody with influence in the community making a post similar to this so instead of me ranting about that “they don’t care about PvP” I’m now trying to be the change that I want to see.

I also want to highlight that this is OUR thread and I want to encourage every single one of you to say your piece about what you think of my suggestions in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner but also what changes YOU would like to see.

I’ve gotten a promise from the Classic Devs that they will read this post and monitor the thread so if you want your voice to be heard then this is our chance, and if you like what I’m suggesting then make sure you communicate that because they wanted me to post on the forums to see what you guys think as well.

Here’s my suggestions:


Two things that I think MUST change.

End of Season Rewards (Titles) returned for 2v2 and 5v5 Arenas:

Before Cataclysm Classic came out the higher-end of PvP players vouched for titles to be removed from 2v2 and 5v5 in order to encourage more people to play 3v3 “the skilled bracket that the game is balanced around” and this turned out to be a great mistake because it’s a change that’s only appealing for the higher-end players but more discouraging for the casual players that has a harder time finding dedicated partners for 3v3 and in this day and age, what truly is the downside to not allowing titles from each bracket? It’s ONLY positive because people love rewards and to have a carrot to chase, and in this case - end of season rewards.

Dampening to start earlier:

Dampening is introduced in MoP and I believe it’s on a 10 minute timer? In the 2v2 bracket this literally feels like a lifetime. The nature of 2v2 is slower paced so I think it’s very important that dampening kicks in after 3 minutes in the 2v2 bracket otherwise you run around with the feeling of that the game hasn’t started until dampening has kicked in and the average player is good enough for games to literally not end without the help of dampening in this bracket. I think a 5 minute timer for 3v3 is appropriate since it’s more action-packed and if two teams play well, the game will go to dampening and that’s fine.


This can single-handedly be the most impactful custom change.

Custom slots for End of Season Reward Titles:

This means that instead of having the traditional 0.1% of the ladder obtaining Rank One Gladiator and the top 0.5% obtaining Gladiator I think there should be a SET amount of spots available per bracket that is eligible for titles and an example of this could be that the top 100 of each bracket will be eligible for Rank One Gladiator and top 250 is eligible for Gladiator.

These goals are reachable for the average player and it would greatly encourage them to play and practice PvP. If you use Cataclysm s10 as an example, only 8 people were eligible for Rank One Gladiator and when people see that then they realize it’s too far out of reach so they don’t bother playing in the first place.

I personally really like this idea and it’s been discussed for months in the Classic Arena Community and I guarantee that it would make a lot more people PvP.

If that doesn’t sound like a good idea then I’d like to propose the Retail Gladiator system where people above 2400 Rating with 50 wins earns Gladiator but the issue with this is that people wait until the MMR has inflated, which means they start late into the season when it’s easier to climb rating and then they grind out their Gladiator title and stop there because there’s no incentive to keep going. The next goal is too far out of reach as the jump from Gladiator to Rank One Gladiator with this system is usually a rating difference between 600-800 while on the contrary if you have custom spots then it’s realistic to reach as the rating difference between Gladiator and Rank One Gladiator is usually between 100-200 rating and you can achieve that by networking, practicing and building team chemistry throughout the season to ensure that they’re a contender for End of Season Rewards and that’s what Arenas should be about in my opinion.


Individuals not taking up several spots:

Something retail does well with the End of Season Rewards is that a Player despite having X amount of characters eligible for the End of Season Rewards till counts as one opposed to taking up five slots if he has five characters eligible. This is a great system and an absolute no-brainer, Classic should adopt it!


PvP Power on s12 Gear:

The s12 PvP gear doesn’t have PvP Power on it and this might cause a huge imbalance. I’d encourage adding it.


Solo Shuffle/Support System:

Finding partners for Arena is one of the biggest issues and obstacles that people are facing today. People spend hours in LFG searching for a teammate just to be met by people lying about their Arena experience and general toxicity and impatience.
The “solution” to this is usually people saying “Just add Solo Shuffle to Classic” and while Solo Shuffle increases participation in PvP (Retail is evidence of that) it usually means people stop trying to play the other brackets just because it’s easier to queue Solo. I’m not against Solo Shuffle but I think creating a system to help people finding teammates would be a much better solution and especially if you’re going with my suggestion of returning titles to 2v2 and 5v5 as well as adding a set amount of spots for End of Season Rewards.

Unfortunately I don’t have a good idea of what a system like that could look like but returning the PvP tab to LFG would be a good start and have that be cross-realm. Why was it even randomly removed in the first place in WoTLK?

Keep in mind that adding Solo Shuffle to Classic would also mean a lot more work and the necessity to come up with new titles and from what I understand, we don’t have the luxury to have that many resources provided for PvP.


Cross faction Arenas:

In my opinion we should introduce every Quality of Life change that would increase PvP participation. Why not allow for cross faction queueing? MoP is a more modern expansion and I think it would be a great change. (Mercenary Mode?)


MMR inflation from the start:

There’s nothing more discouraging for players to feel like you’re not progressing because MMR inflation doesn’t exist from the start or it’s not influential enough. When you’re playing Arenas it should feel like you’re making progress and seeing your rating go up, it’s validating and fun. We’ve seen both on Retail and Classic what happens when there’s no inflation, the average player ends up facing Rank One Gladiators on their usual MMR and that’s discouraging and makes them not want to play because they want to be matched against people within their skill group. This also makes the average player not play until later into the season when the higher rated players are finally within their own MMR range.

On retail we’ve also seen it taking weeks or even months for some of the best players in the world to obtain Gladiator and that’s not a good thing. If it takes that long for some of the best, then what chance does the average player stand? We don’t need to see crazy inflation to the point where people get 3800 rating by the end of the season but it should be there from the beginning and gradually increase.


Disable Class Stacking in Arena:

Class stacking should be disabled for the same reason double healer compositions isn’t allowed. It promotes stale and lame gameplay and for the most part it’s overpowered. Double Rogue compositions in TBC and WoTLK are good examples of this or Double Healer X compositions in both WoTLK and Cataclysm. By the way, you’re still able to respec inside of Arenas in Cataclysm which makes people able to play double healer.


Random side note:

One of the biggest issues in Classic has been that we’ve had to PvE in order to collect our PvP BiS and thankfully that problem goes away with MoP so that change alone is going to encourage a lot more people to play, including people from retail that is already used to a good gearing system because that was likely a big discouragement for them.


Thank you for reading and once again I want to emphasize the importance of discussing everything in a friendly and constructive manner whether you agree with me or not. If we’re being negative and hateful towards each other or the developers then how could we expect them to listen?

Let’s work together and show that we’re a strong and passionate community that is worthy of having our game mode cared for.

Much love guys,
Jon/Minpojke

60 Likes

That’s great and all but the problem i have with your writing is the lfg part, everyone always speaks about it and how thats a problem and everyone always complains but how would you fix it? nobody has any idea and to be completely fair,imo the lfg system as it is is kinda good i think? maybe thats copium but i honestly cant imagine a better LFG system? like idk how else you would look for partners besides the lfg system that is already like in retail, other than that good points all around , but for the love of god dont add soloq or shuffle or anykind of solo gameplay or w/e, it will just kill the other brackets and i want to q normal 3s, thanks <3

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Yeah that’s what I’m not too sure about. Perhaps it could display more information of the person signing up (current rating, previous highest or something like that) but if Blizzard goes through with some of these changes so that more people will play then it might not be as much of a desert as it is right now and people wouldn’t have that much trouble finding teammates? I want to be clear that I’m not really vouching for Solo Shuffle, I just brought it up since I know a lot of people usually do but I would much rather not have it than have it.

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Class stacking must be disabled because its so degenerate I cant even explain…especially double rogue in TBC. Also dampening must go, and the first step should be to bring back the 50% heal reduce effect. I dont even know why was it nerfed years ago and why isnt a thing again.

Dont think you are writing this on the right forum, this part of the forum is for Era/Aniversarry realms not for Cata

Are you sure? I understand that it’s for WoW Classic in General and these suggestions affect all the coming Classic expansions and not Cata specifically so I figured this would be the best category.

If this post proves to be impactful then I’ll definitely make one for TBC Anniversary. Dampening is necessary due to how good people are these days, you’re never going to reach perfect balance in PvP and neither are they looking to achieve that so dampening is the best solution. 50% MS might’ve made sense in TBC but it doesn’t in other expansions.

Definitely a +1 from me. I havent really seen how removing titles from 2s gave the expected result of boosting 3v3 queues, it really didnt happen and i dont see the opposite happen aswell, there will still be more than enough 3s queues even with 2s and 5s titles in place. Moreso that those brackets can be fun aswell for alot of people so boosting the engagement there is just a net positive overall.

now this is something im completly against for one big reason and that would be that the 2v2 meta will shift as a whole. Taking away time to kill before dampening will have a huge impact on Priest comps and will make holypriest for instance much worse in that bracket. There is classes that suck more than others in dampening and forcing fast dampening on them when their main win condition is winning before that is just too much of a change for me personally. Furthermore it would help double dps comps ALOT. And those are already lowkey insane in mop.

Im fine with any change but gotta say that i cant agree with it if it changes the meta too much. Can go more in depth on how it changes the meta for several classes if needed since ive seen it on several other private server. Imo dampening should stay as it is. Oh and in 3v3 dampening really wont be a big issue until ss14 / ss15

Unless i misunderstood this point this can be deleted i think ? Because how i understand it, s12 gear does have pvp power unless we’re talking about blue honor gear which still got pvp RESIL on it though that won’t make a big difference at all and can be ignored since damage should be spiking pretty high in the first few patches.

Honestly I’ll leave that to others. Theres pro and cons to it but to me personally i couldnt care less although i feel like this actually takes away a huge playerbase from original brackets as opposed to others saying titles in 2s and 5s will do. One thing though that i want to mention is that solo SHUFFLE in MoP if it would happen, would need some rework. I think games in MoP can be extremly long and having 6 rounds of 10 minute games is brutal, would have to be a single game maybe or some other change to it.

big yes, can help classes like monk also play Undead for instance so they’re not just CC dummies when nobody would play horde and lose out on 5% damage due to the double pvp trinket.

I think this is fine to be honest, i welcome different comps and if people wanna class stack let them do it, theres not really any broken class stacking in mop that shakes up balance to my knowledge at least

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100% agree with this make mop great again

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I agree with most of this.

The only thing I want to add is on the topic of Solo Shuffle.

I personally like solo shuffle because it allows me to play whenever I want without sitting in LFG in hopes the people I find don’t leave after a few games.

It seems the main gripe with it is that it reduces participation in 2s and 3s. What if, then, a solo shuffle was added with an MMR system, but without any rewards.

It would act as a solid way for people to play and improve without sacrificing the importance of real 2s and 3s. It also requires less work on the behalf of the devs, as mounts/titles are not needed every season.

It’s an improved skirmish system that implements MMR so that you can face people of your own skill. You could have a CR attached to it I guess, but it wouldn’t earn any rewards.

Better yet allow people to queue this mode while sitting in LFG looking for real partners.

Curious to hear what other people think of this. I haven’t played this game as much in recent years so I might be entirely wrong.

Would people not play solo shuffle if it didn’t have rewards? I feel like they would if they didn’t have anyone to queue with. (I would)

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imagine writing a research paper and then posting it in the wrong place

No this is for actual world of warcraft, not retail cash shop or trashclysm.

(post deleted by author)

Well these suggestions affect Classic WoW and not Retail or Cataclysm specifically so that’s why I chose to put it here. Don’t see how it could be a problem either way if it’s in the wrong category, point is that it gets the attention and response the game mode deserves!

Honestly it’s not a bad idea to have it existing without rewards. What I’m hoping is that people will feel more encouraged to look for teammates, and to be nicer to each other if titles are more easily obtained in the regular brackets.

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Good feedback! I still think it’s crucial that dampening starts a little bit sooner in 2s and that it benefits the overall health of the game. I think it’s close to impossible for two decent teams to die in prior to dampening in 2v2.

Individuals not taking up several spots: this should absolutely be changed. Why should a r1 player get 3 spots because he has 3 alts… makes no sense. 1 Spot per class would be best. Cross faction Arenas: Also a very good point, i think this would make the arena scene more alive and also the rewards in other brackets what you mentioned. Overall good thread, hopefully blizzard will make something out of it.

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+1 on this thread.
Me being a casual 2.2 - 2.4 rated player each season, have zero urgy to push arena early as I’ll mostly face multi R1s.

For the classic stuff, I can not comment as I do not play it at this moment.

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Agree with pretty much everything, especially titles in 2s/5s.

Dampening is a tricky subject and I can see how it activating earlier would benefit certain comps/classes more than others. I’ve never liked dampening as a mechanic and it feels like a crutch, but I appreciate there aren’t many other ways around it. What can you do? Blanket nerf healing by ~20%? Still benefits double dps more etc.

2.4k + 50 wins for glad title is a bit ehh, makes getting the title feel more like a grind and less of a reward, but also removes end of season sweat, which is definitely a plus.

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Arena did not exist in Vanilla, therefore this is not a Vanilla problem. I also scrolled threw your post and it’s basically adding retail functionality and changes to arena to cater to casuals. This is why people play Vanilla and then stop. People like you want to add little bonuses for your convenience. You know why you are having a bad time in Cataclysm and there is a lack of participation? Because cata was probably the worst expansion until BFA. MOP was actually pretty well received in comparison to Cata and WOD. I know many people who will come back and play it and even myself, someone who hates everything past Ulduar with a burning passion will be playing with them.

To be totally honest, Blizzard should end all development on Cata and trash bin everything. It’s a awful expansion.