… What would be the same thing? You’re kinda leaving out specifics here.
… What does that even mean? You mean the people resurrecting aren’t running to defend? Because they do spawn much closer than Horde.
Takes quite a while before wing commanders spawns though, since they have to be “returned” from the Alliance side and run all the way back, and then people have to turn in enough resources to make 'em do something.
As for the difference in spots on the map, meanwhile, Alliance have an easier time getting into the Horde base. A much easier time. Fewer elites to deal with as well.
FW GY isn’t really that hard to take once IB GY is taken as well.
Because these things all indicate a difference in collective power. Meaning the side winning in the PvP wins the BG. It’s just that simple. One side gets pushed back only when losing in the fights. It’s the only reason.
Then the cave res advantages could be considered the same. Do I really have to spell everything out for you or what?
It means just what I said it means. Alliance tryint to take IB aren’t getting reinforcements while Horde taking SP are. Is this difficult to understand?
Correct. It takes a while to get summoned bosses and reinforcements. And? Horde have the time since Alliance aren’t going to be making it past SH once it’s taken.
And yes once IB is taken the rest of the Horde base isn’t that difficult to take. Though I think people give the entrance to Horde’s base a bit too little credit. Sure it’s not as easy to defend as the bridge but there is a choke at the entrance where ranged can shoot down incomming attackers from towers. It’s just that no one ever defends there (kind of like Alliance very rarely manage to actually defend on the bridge) other than Alliance if they manage to make it to Horde’s base. Also pushing past TP is a nightmare even once you have IB since if Horde are defending with decent numbers you need to have 10+ people stay at IB to defend it.
But all of this is kind of irrelevant when IB is one of the hardest GYs to capture so none of this even comes into play most of the time. And it’s really not the case of losing fights when it comes to holding it. Alliance have to win multiple fights to capture it while it’s enough for Horde to win a single one to prevent it. Meanwhile it’s the exact opposite at SH. Alliance can push Horde back multiple times but it’s enough for Horde to push them back just once to take it since it’s so difficult to recap from the north.
Absolutely not. It proves that it’s not the map, if anything. Many more horde rankers are also joining on AV weekend and probably even more so due to the high win rate. The bonus is the same, you know.
And regarding your latest comment:
If you are being pushed back, lose SHGY and can’t get out of the choke, that’s because you are the weaker team and you should be losing. It’s not the map.
I agree that IBGY is very strong defensively. I have an idea for you if you are the stronger team and are able to push the horde back, then you should be winning. If you can’t break the defense you can start summoning your tree or gryphons (if u managed to sneak in and get them back) and then push again. You are arguing as if the horde are the only ones who can do this. Sure, it’s maybe a little more annoying to play on the alliance side but stop whining about it and start winning the games where you can push the horde back. The horde does it all the time when choked at SPGY or at the bridge.
Ah yes the good old “you just have to take the GY Horde reach before you and where you get sent to Dun if you die while trying to capture it without losing one of the worse defended GYs on the map”. I guess it’s “collective power” that’s allowing Horde to reach SF first.
It’s true that Horde reaches SF first. However, it’s not like they cap the GY before the Alliance reaches it. By default map design, you’ve got 5 minutes to push back the Horde back from SF GY.
But it’s not like Horde goes for SF GY first to begin with, usually. It’s because Alliance never really tries to fight in that first clash. They just run around like gazelles, trying to get past with a few even though almost all, or sometimes even all of them, just ends up dying because of fighting outnumbered.
And this is despite having the advantage of a closer GY to that first clash. Which is never utilized.
It’s usually not like that though. Usually (at least during AV weekend) you lose SH while you’re going for IB not because you get pushed back from it. And I’m not really “whining”. Just pointing out to all the Horde AV heroes that they aren’t winning because they’re PvP gods. Oh and of course because Blizzard made a bunch of changes to accomodate their whining.
Trying to paint the fact that Horde control most of the map at the start as an Alliance advantage is perhaps one of the most ludecrous things I’ve ever heard.
“most of the map”, now isn’t that funny. It’s literally decided with the PvP. Even if Horde assaults SF GY from the start and tries to defend it, if the Alliance is the stronger team then they’ll win the fight for the flag and be the team that gets SF GY before Horde caps it.
If they can’t win the fight against the Horde, that just goes to show it won’t matter at what point of the map the fight plays out at. Which is why the Horde tends to win even on the Alliance side of the map without any close graveyard whatsoever.
There isn’t any difference between assaulting SF GY before Alliance reaches it, or after Alliance reaches it, when it’s the fighting itself that decides which side gets it.
Oh right, and let’s not forget, SH GY is closer to SF GY than IB GY is to SF GY. So even then, Alliance still has the closer GY.
Yes. If the Alliance are strong enough to win an uphill battle (quite literally) then they will probably win. But that’s the entire point. It isn’t enough for teams to be equal or for Alliance to be slightly stronger. They need to be a lot stronger to overcome these disadvantages.
What’s funny about your narrative, is that it ignores everything circumstancial, like setup, levels, player participation, player preparation (gear, practice/skill etc.), teamwork and so on.
You do know, that in unrated matchmaking which is inherently chaotic by design, that the matchmaking will almost never match people up evenly, right? Especially not with as many factors affecting PvP as in WoW.
Meanwhile, Alliance had their premaders, which was the largest bulk of players properly prepared for PvP on the Alliance side, quit AV ever since premades got mitigated. Only a few kept trying.
At the same time, Horde has always had their rankers and tryharders queue for AV, which Horde has significantly more of as well which the WPvP phase showed. It wasn’t really the Horde crying about the WPvP at the time.
So Horde has always had a higher average of rankers and tryharders queuing for AV. Yet the Alliance side’s tryharders are spread out very thinly, because there are so few of them queuing for AV.
Yet according to your narrative, PvP isn’t what decides the outcome. It’s always the map that’s to blame. Gotta love that skewed logic.
Also fyi: It doesn’t matter that Horde reaches SF GY first when it takes 5 minutes to cap it after assaulting it.
During which time, Alliance has the closer GY.
That’s assuming the Alliance doesn’t just try to do the normal, which is to avoid PvP as much as possible while they just die while mounted in their rush to IB GY while hugging the walls.
For example, this guy:
He increased his own win rate with his hunter friend by improving the teamwork in the BGs he were in. He didn’t lose because of the map when he did lose.
Yet according to you, that was all because of the map. Because there’s no other possible reason for Alliance to ever lose.
You claim the underlying reason for losing is always the map. That it’s the “core reason”. That’s not a straw man.
Also, it isn’t an advantage when the PvP is what decides who gets it. Before the GY is even capped, the PvP will have played itself out. And it’s not because of a flag being assaulted that a player gets killed in PvP combat, you know?