However claiming that I’m saying the map is the only reason ever that Alliance ever lose is a straw man. And please do go on trying to justify your claim of how it’s somehow irrelevant who reaches which point first and who has to attack or defend where.
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You’re connecting the map to the low win rate. Meaning all losses.
Already explained it. You just seem unable to understand it.
I have never said that the map is the sole reason Alliance lose. Not once. Ever. Stop making things up.
And you explained nothing. You just stated it.
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A simple scroll up proves you wrong on that one, you know.
Hardly a map issue.
At start of most battles horde try cap to SH. The alliance try to defend it but they almost always fail. Horde get the choke and game is mostly over.
Alliance own SH but the in some (strange) way they almost always lose it. This is NOT a map issue… it is the PVP that plays out.
You lose the zug zug eveywhere (mostly) no matter what the objective is.
EU horde are the last people still trying to defend their AV privilege.
Literally ridiculous and pathetic at the same time. Get a damn grip you 
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lol, lets change the map, idc, and then watch how you get 1% more wins, because that’s likely how much difference it would make at this point.
1% come on bro lol 
is this a bad attempt at comedy?
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No, the same way the mindset has been the core issue on the Alliance side (partly thanks to premades, kinda spoiled 'em and made 'em never queue up as rankers in enough numbers ever again), it’d be affected by changing the map.
Except it wouldn’t actually have anything to do with the map design, it’d just affect their mindset. It’d have the placebo effect. Still doesn’t justify changing the map to soothe whining crybabies though.
@everyone else: inb4 all of the “but da map, bro!!” gets echoed YET AGAIN, just read the thread already. Heck, read all the other threads. There’s nothing you can say that hasn’t been said already about the map, and countered as well. So either come up with something to counter the counters, or keep whining like the monkeys you are. Repeating arguments already shown to be false conclusions and basically false narratives, will accomplish nothing except show you’re an idiot.
I’m truly glad Blizzard doesn’t pay attention to you all.
And of course, now a bunch of counter insults will come pouring in, yet never touching the actual counterarguments themselves, and many will not even read them all to begin with. So repetitions of the same arguments becomes inevitable.
It’s like a neverending echo. Gotta love social media, right?
I wonder how long it’ll take until a new thread is made, basically resetting the entire thread’s purpose YET AGAIN, in an attempt to whitewash the counterarguments? And round and round it goes.
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Why do you feel the need to lie about what my position is? I get that it’s difficult to defend your’s but it’s a bit childish to feel the need to make up what I’ve said instead of simply apologising for building a ridiculous straw man.
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Alright, one last time just for you.
You’ve connected the map to the low win rate. Thereby connecting the map to the losses. ALL the losses.
Just because you didn’t say it directly, it doesn’t mean you’ve never said it. There are more layers than just the most shallow literal one to the way people communicate.
How about you try countering the actual points raised, hmm? Is it because… You can’t, more than the little you’ve already tried to? The same attempts to counter that got countered?
You’ve alluded to the map being the reason many times over. Now stop obfuscating, please.
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Stop making up what my position is. I get that it’s much easier to attack straw men you built up but it’s not how debating works. How about you actually challange my points raised instead of lying about what I said then turning around and saying I’m the one not challanging the actual points raised?
Yeah i give up too on people like Beware and Bodiesan. They are only answering the questions they like to, and never accept anything that have anything to do with the horde advantage. Its just pointless.
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For my pat I agreed to boycott AV, I have more than enough victories on main in retail and don’t need the few items it gives , I 've got better from pve and so I wil sick with warsong gulch and arathi bassin were all of a sudden the mighty horde lose most of the game I play in. You and this is not worth the deal nor my time ! I have spoken !
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Sorry, but I would argue it’s not much different from retail.
Majority of Alliance players just suck. Period.
You can however still find a group of solid players on alliance to run premades with.
What question have I missed and not answered?
I have never claimed Horde doesn’t have any advantage in AV by the way. I have claimed that Horde have an advantage in the first part of the game and an disadvantage in the last part of the game. But the main reason for the extreme result in AV is due to the queue and reward system where it’s not rewarding for the faction with a short queue to win a slow game compared to losing fast or playing WSG/AB instead while it is for the faction with a long queue. I have also said that talking about the map is irrelevant as it’s a recreation and is being used as intended and is not being exploited. The queue is not authentic and the reward system is being exploited. That’s why we have this extreme result. It’s reasonable to tweak the unauthentic queue and to hotfix the reward system that is being exploited. It’s not reasonable to change an authentic RP PvEvP map in the name of balance when it’s not even the main reason for this extreme situation. It would not be reasonable even if it was the main reason. Because it’s a r e c r e a t i o n.
Unless you can point to an exploit or unintended bug or similar in the AV map then asking for changes is ABSURD. But to be fair, the situation we are in now is also absurd so you are some what forgiven. I understand this reaction.
I can point to exploits and unintended behaviors in the queue and reward system. Those are the things that needs to be hotfixed and actually CAN be fixed. The map can not be “fixed”. Stop talking about the damn map.
Ok, say 5%, idk. You need the alliance PvPers to come back to AV if you want to win more, and changing the map won’t make that happen. That’s my point.
DO NOT WORRY! There will be new AV coming up in TBC and GUESS WHAT! It is PVE FRIENDLY as the starting caves are now symmetrically LOCATED and there are NO REASON to fight a player versus player ANYMORE! because the best tactic for it is just WHO WILL RUN FASTEST TO THE ENEMY LAST BOSS AND SLAY HIM! long live NEW ALTERAC VALLEY! and also! BONUS FOR THAT is that you will FORGET ALL THE DESPAIR you felt in OLD ALTERAC VALLEY and will only remember how you CRIED BECAUSE IMBALANCES OF IT ON THE FORUMS for HOURS AND HOURS! this is the experiance you made for yourself instead of long hours of BATTLES! LONG LIVE PVE TBC ALTERAC VALLEY AND DO NOT STOP AT MIDDLE FOR FIGHT BECAUSE IT IS A WASTE OF TIME! YOU CAN NOW FORGET AT TBC THE EPIC 40 VERSUS 40 WARS DO NOT CRY NOMORE MY FRIENDS BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS ALREADY CRIED FOR YOU 15 YEARS AGO AND THERE ARE A SOLUTION ALREADY MADE FOR IT FOR EVERYONE THAT TOUGH IT IS A PROBLEM <3 THANKS FOR PARTIPIAITING FOR THE HUGE CRY A LAKE OF AV FOR MAKING THE GAME MORE CASUAL FRIENDLY AND BORING <3 JUST LIKE WE LIKE IT <3
YOu seem to have never played any competitive games.
Normally when a side has 55% win rate, they are overpower, if they have a above 65% win rate the state of the game broken. Horde are now winning like 98% of AV’s.
Blizzard did change the map, moved the horde cave back where it is to this day. I wonder why they did it 15 years ago.
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Its not map
Its not racials
Its not skill level…
Just because of queue times.
If you wait 1.5 hours to play, ofc you play better and do everything to win.