Fix AV glitch

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
61

look, i already tackled this absurd idea that somehow the AV map is somehow Horde favored, so i will just copypaste my reply to that other 400 page thread.

  1. Bunkers > Towers - no debate, alliance can literally skip archers and go straight for the flag tag AND hit the archers through the tower wall with no retaliation, while horde has to kill basically all archers in the bunkers before they can safely tag the flag and have no way to cheese kill said archers.

  2. Balinda > Galvangar - in terms of annoying abilities, namely sheep, arcane explosion and mass slow whereas Galv has cleave (capped at 3 targets), whirlwind, mortal strike and aoe fear. Galv can be completely shut down with a simple disarm, and his fear only lasts 6 seconds… oh and you can kite him endlessly because he has no ranged abilities LUL.

  3. Alterac Ram > Frostwolf - Ram has Charge (which stuns) and Wolf has a mere Rend. pray who do you think gets more easily dazed off their mounts?

  4. Icewing choke is easier to attack and hold for horde compared to Iceblood choke for alliance. but both are attackable and defensible nonetheless, it depends on your ability to hold the graveyard at the choke, for both sides.

Alliance base layout > Horde base layout

Alliance base:

  1. Clumped up NPCs
  2. A Bridge covered by 2 bunkers firing cancer arrows at whoever tries to cross
  3. Trinket recall point right next to aid station flag, makes for easy ninja tag.
  4. Horde cannot cheese/skip the marshals for easy Vanndar kill.
  5. ONE backdoor that is hard to exploit, a lone alliance ranged class can hold this backdoor 1 vs 10-15 a simple blizzard aoe makes it impossible for any horde to get up.
  6. Irondeep mine tucked away behind SP gy aka easily defended.
  7. Commanders/Lieutenants clumped up near all the essential base exits for easy regen buff and easy choke defense.
  8. The only downside to the alliance base is the fact that entrance to AV is tucked in the back of the base, meaning it takes them 10 seconds longer to get to the mid field when the game starts, this does, however, become an advantage in the late game when alliance should be defending their base (instead of just giving up)

Horde base:

  1. NPCs all spread out, easy access to base essentials like Relief Hut.
  2. No bridge.
  3. Barracks that block west/east towers from firing at incoming alliance.
  4. Walls with 3+ sections that can be ‘exploited’ by a simple jump (no wall climb needed, like with that ONE alliance backdoor) - not defendable.
  5. Coldtooth mine outside of base, just behind tower point; hard to defend
  6. Commanders/Lieutenants separated and alone just like all the other NPC’s, easily killed.
  7. Drek’thar easily cheesed for quick kill, making towers even more useless to the horde.
  8. Trinket recall point at least 90 yards away from relief hut flag, right in front of Drek’thar’s barracks, good luck getting to the relief hut flag with 30+ allies camping the location.
  9. No geographic advantages at FW GY, as opposed to the hill/mountainside next to SP GY.
  10. Horde’s only advantage is their cave entrance being next to their frontline which becomes a DISADVANTAGE late game when they need (and want to) defend base.

now please, address how this favors horde, and don’t cherrypick.

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  1. Bunkers can be capped from the lower level by standing on pikes below the flag.
  2. Belinda has lower armour and lower health, spells can be interrupted, arcane explosion hits like a wet fish. Galv can fear people out causing him to reset. Cleave and whirlwind can 1 hit poor geared players.
  3. Is this even an argument? They are lvl 51 lol.
  4. Equivalent Ice blood choke point is massively easier to defend than attack. Alliance can only attack from 1 direction with tower archers shooting at them in the back and lieutenants patrolling who will bum them from behind. Horde can hide behind the hill and target alliance players without being seen and Horde can jump down the drop right by where they spawn and attack alliance in the rear or just ride past on their way to exploit their way into alliance base. Ice wing is FAR more beneficial to the horde because once the horde have taken stonehearth, it takes them 10 seconds to get from gy to the choke point. They also have the option to drop down the cliff and run past alliance into the harpies and then exploit into the alliance base. Alliance now cannot get past as the only way is on the road, they don’t have the option to climb the cliff or run past via the mountains as the terrain doesn’t allow you to exploit over it.
  1. All can be ignored and are not aggressive unless attacked.
  2. Only 1 tower can reach the bridge but it doesn’t matter anyway because horde don’t cross the bridge, they just exploit into alliance base.
  3. Irrelevant. You know exactly where they will spawn so defend it. It’s not a surprise.
  4. No but they can solo pull van by causing the npc by door to run in and pull van out. Alliance need a paladin for this exploit, any horde class can solo pull van.
  5. An exploit so easy to access that it’s exploited in 90% of games. It’s laughable that you think 1 person can defend against 10-15 :joy: I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Bring a hunter and 1 shot the Mage with aimed shot since hunters can have 41 yard range and blizzard is 36 yards.
  6. Mines are beyond irrelevant and provide no benefit whatsoever.
  7. Wow an extra 15 health per second!!! Surely the alliance will win every ga… oh wait.
  8. It takes more than 10 seconds even for the 100% mounters. The horde already have 60% mounts at mid whilst alliance 60% are still at stonehearth. The positioning of the alliance entrance never becomes an advantage.
  1. NPCs can be ignored, same as in alliance base. Must run past both towers to get to Relief Hut, whilst being shot at by no less than 6 archers at the same time. This point really is weak.
  2. So??? lol
  3. Alliance get shot by opposite tower as they are walk up the other. Smallest choke point in the game. 1 hunter frost trap or focused AoE can stop the entire alliance getting past.
  4. Never seen the horde base exploited. In any AV game I’ve ever played and I don’t even know where the exploit is. Alliance base gets exploited in 90% of games. Look at the facts and decide which one is more accessible. Just put 1 Mage there to defend against 10-15 imaginary alliance players who exploit this every game lololololol.
  5. Mines are irrelevant
  6. Not sure where you got this from? All lieutenants are pretty balanced in their positioning. Only thing I can point out is that the alliance lieutenant that patrols between ice win and Belinda can be avoided completely with no fear he will patrol up behind the attacking force at stonehearth because he doesn’t come up the hill.
  7. See point 4 of alliance advantages lol. Drek also has 2 badass wolves.
  8. See point 3 of alliance advantages
  9. Horde can access the hill and mountain side. Provides no advantage at all.
  10. This is such a massive advantage that it slows down the alliance attack so much, the horde have usually already exploited into alliance base by the time alliance reach frostwolf gy. They can also reach Belinda faster than alliance can reach galv, they can reach snowfall faster and they can reach the middle of the map faster. This is literally the biggest horde advantage out of all of them because it’s not even an exploit. The fact that this becomes a disadvantage in late game is also irrelevant because once the alliance take frostwolf, you have a clear path straight into the alliance base with no resistance (exploit) yet the alliance still have to get past the choke point between barracks and east/west tower.

Only real advantage that the alliance have over the horde is dwarves have a bigger schlong than orcs.

63

First of all, i want to thank you for actually reading my points and secondly, i admire the attempt to argue with them, however, it seems to me you are overall dwelling on the “backdoor exploit” point for almost all of your counterpoints, while straight up dismissing other arguments that i have made.
i shall now proceed to tell you why that “exploit” doesn’t really make or break games (especially since alliance can do it too, which comically enough, you weren’t even aware of).

i’ll go through your counterpoints, point by point and do my best to argue with them. hell, i even agree with some of them. but nevertheless you’re obviously being a big condescending especially with that “schlong” note you ended on :see_no_evil: :hear_no_evil: :speak_no_evil:

  1. You seem to be arguing that Horde can stand on pike doodads to cap bunker flags, which first of all, is false since not all the bunkers have doodads in them and secondly, no we can’t (i actually tried, and the flag is not in reach in the bunkers that DO have doodads like stacked crates, pikes and what not) and third, even if it is possible it still takes way more effort to cheese a jump puzzle to tag a flag than it does for you to literally run into the flag uncontested by horde archers and tagging it, and you conveniently ignored the point of alliance being able to smack our archers through the walls of the towers as well.

  2. Balinda’s Arcane explosion does not hit like a wet fish, in fact it will definitely kill the group trying to kill her if there is no healer around. and no, Galvangar does not reset if he fears someone out (it would honestly be a miracle if someone who also happened to have aggro DID get feared all the way out of the barracks in the mere 6 seconds it lasts) he will change target to the next person on the aggro list, cleave and whirlwind won’t be used if you disarm him, now who hits like a wet fish? he can literally be 3-4 manned by a group of warriors if they do the rotation properly, this is an example of the arguments you conveniently ignore in your reply, but there is more.

  3. Yes it is definitely an argument, you can’t just sweep it aside like it doesn’t matter, especially when most horde players anecdotal experience is exactly that of being dismounted because a goat randomly charges them and gets a lucky daze, which in some cases actually kills them because there is usually other mobs already chasing them (guards) now i will admit that you gotta be severely unlucky to actually get killed by the guard patrols, but the point remains; it happens way more to horde than it does to alliance because frostwolves don’t have any chase mechanic.

  4. look, this is one of the points i sorta agree with you on, and i’m pretty sure i even mentioned that in my original post, but the fact of the matter is that this becomes the fact for alliance once they cap it as well, there is only 1 way to get through the choke, and you will literally spawn right on it if you control the GY, hence why i said “it depends on your ability to hold the graveyard” and for the love of god stop acting like iceblood tower is somehow this nuclear weapon that the horde have at its disposal when it comes to preventing you from capturing IB GY, it gets destroyed within a minute if 1-2 people attack it and put in an effort to take out its archers, which they might as well since they will already be going there to tag the flag. and the reverse scenario at IWB has horde dedicating at least 5-6 people to quickly take out the bunker as it will most certainly be reinforced and has a much more troublesome layout in regards to the archers occupying (guarding) it. you’d be surprised how easy it is for you to hold IWB choke if you keep your archers in the bunker protected even a little bit.

  1. All can be ignored and are not aggressive unless attacked.

you know god damn well this is next to impossible with 20-30 people all running around in there, quit BSing me. and yes, they most certainly are aggressive, i can guarantee you that.

  1. Only 1 tower can reach the bridge but it doesn’t matter anyway because horde don’t cross the bridge, they just exploit into alliance base.

False again, both BUNKERS can reach the bridge and they frequently kill whoever dares to cross the bridge first, and you got it reversed, horde always use the bridge and rarely if ever use the backdoor, that’s pretty much only used by rogues who are going for ninjacaps during tough (losing) battles.

  1. Irrelevant. You know exactly where they will spawn so defend it. It’s not a surprise.

Okay, i see, its irrelevant that Horde has to run 90 yards to tag relief hut after using their trinket and all that alliance has to do is literally click their trinket and tag the flag when teleported… Yes, very irrelevant. this is another example of you just sweeping a good argument under the rug.

  1. No but they can solo pull van by causing the npc by door to run in and pull van out. Alliance need a paladin for this exploit, any horde class can solo pull van.

how often do you think this happens? there is always some idiot killing the NPC. this trick literally only works 1/20 times, first you have to rely on the NPC to actually flee in the correct direction, and secondly you gotta rely on your team not to (willingly or accidentally) tap that last 10% of life that she has when she runs, oh and btw her total healthpool is like 1400, so you can imagine how often this happens, literally all it takes is an unlucky crit at the wrong time or a dot that lasts for too long for her to bite the dust.

  1. An exploit so easy to access that it’s exploited in 90% of games. It’s laughable that you think 1 person can defend against 10-15 :joy: I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Bring a hunter and 1 shot the Mage with aimed shot since hunters can have 41 yard range and blizzard is 36 yards.

you can laugh all you want mate, this “exploit” is literally the best point of defense on the entire map, too bad the allies never actually does it… and btw, its not like you don’t have hunters on alliance side, which i recall also have several slowing abilities that can screw up any would-be jumpers day.

  1. Mines are beyond irrelevant and provide no benefit whatsoever

oh then you won’t mind if horde start AV with champion guards, will you?
again, very relevant and definitely a benefit.

  1. Wow an extra 15 health per second!!! Surely the alliance will win every ga… oh wait.

…and mana… if you refuse to defend your commanders and lieutenants when you have the chance, that’s a you-problem.

  1. It takes more than 10 seconds even for the 100% mounters. The horde already have 60% mounts at mid whilst alliance 60% are still at stonehearth. The positioning of the alliance entrance never becomes an advantage.

this is a lie. horde 60% mounts will be lucky to have reached IB GY by the time alliance 100% mounts reach Balinda. i know because i happen to have 100% mount and always clash with alliance around Balinda’s bunker… or well, i would, if it wasn’t for the brave heroes of the alliance trying to sneak around to the sides each and every game… seriously, do you guys think horde players are blind? that we won’t notice that long train of red text going east/west in a vain effort to avoid a clash? i laugh every time i see it.

  1. NPCs can be ignored, same as in alliance base. Must run past both towers to get to Relief Hut, whilst being shot at by no less than 6 archers at the same time. This point really is weak.

Aye, horde NPCs can indeed be ignored because as oppose to the alliance base, the horde NPCs are spread out so much you barely even have to acknowledge their presence, and if you happen to somehow pull any of them, you’ll have at least 10-20 yards kiting room to work with.

  1. So??? lol

are you serious for real? you’re actually gonna act like having the only entrance to your base be a raised platform that you can toss people off of using mind control while said platform is also covered by no less than 2 bunkers, is nothing?. and before you say “muh backdoor exploit” just hold your horses, because once the horde have reached SP GY that “backdoor” becomes useless as a frontal assault is way more efficient… oh and also, we’ve already been over how easily defended this “exploit backdoor” is on the alliance end of things.

  1. Alliance get shot by opposite tower as they are walk up the other. Smallest choke point in the game. 1 hunter frost trap or focused AoE can stop the entire alliance getting past.

hahahaha good one. the whole 5 yards they have to cross after going through the first barracks must be such a death zone right. its not like you can literally just walk under the towers and avoid them altogether. and no, one frost trap or aoe spell will not stop an entire alliance raid from passing through, that’s ridiculous.

  1. Never seen the horde base exploited. In any AV game I’ve ever played and I don’t even know where the exploit is. Alliance base gets exploited in 90% of games. Look at the facts and decide which one is more accessible. Just put 1 Mage there to defend against 10-15 imaginary alliance players who exploit this every game lololololol.

Want me to post some videos showing all the horde side exploit points that you can use?.. oh wait, the horde base is so trash you don’t even need to use them, lololololol no wonder you didn’t know they existed… and no, i already said that you can’t just put a mage there to defend these exploit routes as they are so easily exploited he won’t be able to do it, as i said; no wall climbing required. literally just a mount and a jump from a hill over the wall.

  1. Mines are irrelevant

we’ve already been over this one, mines are definitely not irrelevant. no wonder alliance lose all the time if that’s their general consensus on mine occupation.

  1. Not sure where you got this from? All lieutenants are pretty balanced in their positioning. Only thing I can point out is that the alliance lieutenant that patrols between ice win and Belinda can be avoided completely with no fear he will patrol up behind the attacking force at stonehearth because he doesn’t come up the hill.

i was talking about horde commanders/lieutenants, not alliance ones.

  1. See point 4 of alliance advantages lol. Drek also has 2 badass wolves.

i would appreciate if you could be more specific here, but i presume you are referring to how horde can use that nonelite to solo pull vanndar? yeah no, we’ve already been over that. this is why you don’t use a point to refer to another point, because its just confusing.

  1. See point 3 of alliance advantages

again, more specificity please, but no, we’ve been over this too, assuming you are referring to the trinket recall. it definitely matters that one team recalls right in front of their base flag while the other team recalls to a location 90 yards away from it.

  1. Horde can access the hill and mountain side. Provides no advantage at all.

right, all they have to do is run from SP gy back to IWB and take the path up the hill to the right and then run another 500 yards to reach that one annoying hunter standing on top of the hill ganking anyone who resses at SP gy :ok_hand: :sweat_smile:

  1. This is such a massive advantage that it slows down the alliance attack so much, the horde have usually already exploited into alliance base by the time alliance reach frostwolf gy. They can also reach Belinda faster than alliance can reach galv, they can reach snowfall faster and they can reach the middle of the map faster. This is literally the biggest horde advantage out of all of them because it’s not even an exploit. The fact that this becomes a disadvantage in late game is also irrelevant because once the alliance take frostwolf, you have a clear path straight into the alliance base with no resistance (exploit) yet the alliance still have to get past the choke point between barracks and east/west tower.

you really won’t let that fatally flawed exploit point rest huh?
okay so if Horde were able to reach Ally base before Alliance reaches Frostwolf GY, how do you explain that Alliance could 7 min rush Drek’thar not very long ago without horde being able to make it up there in time even without a single alliance player defending?
and no, it does not become irrelevant just because you say so. it makes it objectively harder for horde to defend main base when they got much farther to run to get there compared to alliance cave to base distance… and we’ve already been over how that east/west tower “choke” is a god damn joke, those towers might as well not even be there at all because they aren’t performing their intended purpose which is to deter attackers from rushing in to take relief hut.

hope you enjoyed the read.

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I did. I don’t have time to respond to everything so I’ll just do a speed reply

It is possible and it’s really easy. Jump on the table next to the pikes, press / to walk and then jump onto the top of the pikes. I can do this on my dwarf and I can cap the flag. The first time I saw it was when I watched an undead rogue doing it to cap the tower whilst the defenders sat at the top doing nothing.

Yes the horde do use the bridge in every game as that is what is intended, but not before someone has already tried the exploit and either tagged the aid station or got rekt by defenders. Rogues on both sides can stealth into the base and ninja cap everything.

The amount of times you see champion guards in matches is rare at best. You would be more useful to your team attacking players and collecting armour scraps instead.

If the horde 60% mounters don’t reach iceblood gy by the time the 100% alliance reach Belinda then they must be afk at the start. Look at the map and look how close the horde starting cave is to iceblood.

Muh back door expl… oops!

That’s all I have time for sorry. We will never agree I’m afraid so there’s not much point adding anything else. We will just have to put the horde 90% win rate down to being better players!

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Great talk about the map being balanced, but there’s still a bug in the alliance base, a wall jump, maybe we can get this fixed?

Anyone from blizz?

66

Problem is it’s a glich and it should be fixed and anyone caught using it should be banned.

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67

How do you know it was not intended by Blizzard for both bases to have a backdoor in Vanilla? Do you really think it’s a coincident that both bases just happened to have backdoor when they designed AV? I donno, sound pretty extraordinary if you ask me…

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I see. If the horde can’t win in pvp its important to notice that its unbalanced and we have to cry over the forums. If alliance do the same —> “where did you read av and classic vannila was gonna be balanced? It’s not and never will be.”

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Objectively classic is unbalanced. I don’t care if a fellow zugzug or gnome cries on the forums. Unbalanced and thats the reality. People who complain should consider to change game.

I’ve witnessed and felt the unbalance in classic. I just dont have a need to make a forum post crying out for help on the matter.

70

That would be really sweet, or make it the same in horde base.
but I guess alliance is not suppose to have it as easy as horde :slight_smile:

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It is the same in the Horde base. Both bases have a backdoor.

72

Screw them.

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Really? I have never found one except if u mean the one after u enter the base and in behind the tower?

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Lol yes. AV is very unbalanced. For both sides. Alliance have it so much easier to take the horde base that most people doesn’t even know about the backdoor because it’s not needed. It is also basically impossible to defend from inside.

1 Like
75

Damn ^^ but our backdoor is waaay more simplier, matter of fact we have 2 :stuck_out_tongue: but thx for showing me this, im gonna have alot of fun hehe :slight_smile:

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Yes I agree. It’s much easier to do the backdoor into Alliance base.

I would not complain if Blizzard close all backdoors in all bgs or at least made an official statement if it’s considered an exploit or not.

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Agreed! :slight_smile:

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