And the healers are doing what?!: Queuing up for Arenas using LFG with each other to go against other healers?..and after 10 hours of dampening, one of them dies.
Uda:
There are more DDs than healers. So, if all the DDs go to SS, then of course the healers will follow.
There, I fixed it for you.
No. They are going with the Gigachad DDs that actually know how to play. How to use defensive CDs. How to do proper damageâŠ
Ect⊠Basically. Having proper arena matches with proper PvPers. Not with noobs in blue gear.
Or worse. Like me. Simply stop playing PvP. So now, PvP in general has 1 less healer. Which is bad for everyone. SS, Arena and BGs. They ALL get longer wait times.
Fixed what?
I mean⊠Dont take my word for it. I already gave you link after link of people that know much more than you and me.
But alsoâŠ
That is the best way possible to understand why you would want to play LFG instead of SS.
Convince me on why any DPS, Pro and Novice alike, why would any of them sit for hours in LFG trying to form a group for Arenas, and by extension, why would the Healers do it?
You said that Solo Shuffle is popular because of DPS, inherent in that is that DPS dictates the PvP environment, the healers who want to PvP must then follow if they want to PVP.
Now, if they want to wait around instead they can just list their group for Arenas in LFG.
Because SOME people donât wait for hours. Healers wait 5 seconds in LFG. Gigachad DDs wait 5 seconds in LFG.
Everyone else. Waits for a long time.
You keep confusing yourself with âDPS dictate the PvP environmentâ. Which MIGHT be true once the match starts. But not before the match starts.
Healers donât tag behind the DPS simply because (A) SS is as the name implies a SOLO mode. And (B) healers dont get to choose the DPS. The DPS dont get to choose the healers either. So nobody is âfollowingâ anyone.
For a Solo Shuffle match to begin, you need 4 DDs and 2 healers. You cant do a match with 6 DDs, or with 6 healers. It MUST be 4DD and 2 healers.
HOWEVER:
If you play a healer, you wait literally 1 minutes for the matchmaking algo to put you in a group. If you play DD you wait 45 minutes.
You can even back-calculate the ratio of healers to DDs with that information.
The ratio of healer to DD in a SS match is 1/2 (2 healers / 4 DDs). The ratio of wait time is: 1 minute / 45 minutes.
You simplify those ratios and you get that there are 22 DPS for every 1 healer. That is why wait times are larger for the DPS.
Since you need EXACTLY 2 healers and 4 DDs to start a match. 1/22, or, 4.5% of DDs in the Quew will find a group to play. 100% of healers in the Quew will find a group to play. The rest of the 95.5% of DDs will simply have to wait for a healer.
THAT is the reason why healers donât âfollowâ behind DPS. Its the DPS that depend on the healers to begin a match, because 95.5% of them cant play because there are no healers in the Quew. In LFG, and in SS.
Most people do care about it. See how even low keys try to find meta classes for their group and non-meta players cry about it (rightfully so) on all platforms.
But even that is something we donât need to talk about in general. Itâs just a sidenote on the actual question youâre still dodging.
Why would I, as a tank, use your SoloQ system? I can sure as hell tell you that I, again, as a tank, much prefer the option to manually assemble my group, than to get 3 random DPS and a random healer.
It does take me marginally more time, a minute if even that, to manually curate my group than your SoloQ system would take me.
Your suggestion could be benefitial for low to mid range keys but itâs just DoA for high level keys.
Which also completely flipped how arenas work, yes. Instead of having a 3v3 match, like it used to be, you have to have 3x 3v3 matches in order to shuffle through the player combinations, due to composition and skill differences, to make it fair.
You also want to revamp how M+ works?
Also PvP has been dying out over the past few years as far as I can tell and hear. So taking PvP as an example is not a good approach here.
Also this. There are also countless discussions about how Solo Shuffle is unfair to healers. Not only because itâs a pain to play but also because itâs unfair MMR wise.
Due to the severe lack of healers, higher rated healers get assigned to lower MMR matches, barely gaining any rating for winning because their MMR is so much higher than that of the other players.
What did that do? Make queue times longer. GGs.
Your steelman is that DPS love it so we should have it even though it does the exact opposite of what you tried to achieve (lowering queue times)?
I mean itâs not really beneficial to your point when you use Solo Shuffle as an example since we literally see how low healer participation is there.
They vastly prefer LFG because itâs more fair to them, simple as that.
Thatâs a DPS player mate.
Also, as a former long time PvP player, I can tell you that arenas never worked the same way as M+ LFG did. LFG per se wasnât actually that popular to begin with when it comes to arenas. Only those who were not that social or had extremly random playing times chose to use LFG.
The vast majority of the arena players had premade groups they queued up with, not random players.
If I was forced to? Yes. If both are a viable choice? No, absolutely not.
Queueing up with good DPS players in Discord.
They donât. They do it once and have a premade group assembled for all future matches.
PvP is less PuG centric than PvE is. You canât compare them.
I take the train to work every day.
So what would motivate me to complain about traffic?
Me having to use my car would, right?
You posted links to several threads of healersâ complaints regarding Solo Shuffle.
So what would motivate them to complain about Solo Shuffle?
Them not having a more viable option in Arenas to PvP would, right?
So how did you square that circle, healers using a car (LFG) and avoiding traffic?
And when they are using the train, thatâs when they complain about traffic.
The whole point of taking the train when you have a car is to avoid traffic.
Youâre posting of links showing healers using the train isnât helping your case.
WHO drives the train? A train driver. Correct? If there is only ONE train driver. Only ONE train can leave. WHO drives the car? If there is only ONE car driver, only ONE car can leave.
There is no traffic jam. And you dont go any faster in a train. From the healer perspective, its the same (time wise) to take the car, or the train.
Its the PASSENGERS that wait. The DDs. And they dont wait in traffic.
They dont even start the car. Or the train. None of the two even leaves the station/garage. They sit there. Waiting. For a driver.
(A) The #1 complaint is the fact that they are paired up with bad people all the time in SS.
If you are paired up with ONE (or more) bad DDs, you tie as a healer. 3/3. And gain ZERO rating. No reward at all. Plus, its not fun.
And turns out, that an automatic matchmaking will ALWAYS pair you up with at-least ONE bad player.
Healers drive on empty roads. Its not a problem for them. And the train tracks are also empty.
What they do in LFG (car) is this: They show up to a list of Garages. Each one with a car and some passengers. That are waiting. The DRIVER (healer) chooses which car they want to drive. They choose ONE car.
And they take the car that can go the fastest or the comfiest or whatever. The rest of the cars simply sit there and wait.
That is something they CANNOT do in SS. Because in SS (or taking the train in your example) itâs an algorithm that chooses the train with passengers for them. And it could be anyone. A trouble-maker. Or exemplary citizens. You dont know who is in it.
Yeah but do you get a seat? 
Not to mention, in LFG setting if you donât like the passenger, you can easily leave before the group even gets started.
SoloQ - Got queued together with a clueless DPS who clearly has no idea about his talents and his gear is an unechanted/ungemmed mess of questing greens and bluesâŠwell you are stuck with them then. Can leave but have to take the "leaver strike"thenâŠ
Good point actually. An M+ run takes roughly 30 minutes from start to completion (considering you complete it and time it), plus minus a few minutes depending on the dungeon.
An arena match takes 2 to 4 minutes.
Readd learner keys and ban toxic trash. M+ fixed
Iâd love to have resilient keys to be +1. Meaning that if I have done all 15s, my keys canât deplete below 16.
Resilient keys as of now are a cool thing. I like them but in my experience, you rarely deplete keys on level X when you already have all keys timed on level X.
Most depletes happen in X + 1 or higher.
Itâs just annoying to have to play keys you donât get anything from over and over and over again because at some point, youâll deplete 90% of your keys. At which point this happens depends on your skill level but that point inevitably comes.
Agreed and expand resilient to all levels
Or when you want certain keys and continue to get the wrong ones and canât progress
True.
Another thing they can do is implement Rio inflation. They do that in PvP and raids and it works. There are many ways to do it. The easiest one is to simply aura-buff players by 2% every week.
The basic premise is to prevent people from spending too much time just wiping over and over again. Because, as you pointed out, at some point you get sick of wiping and you quit.
LFG is more analogous to a car experience, whereas Solo Shuffle/SoloQ is more like that of a train
You can pick and choose who sits next to you in your car, but you canât for the person sitting next to you on the train
This car experience youâre describing is attributed to that of a trainâs.
Trains drive on empty train tracks, whereas cars donât drive on empty roads
DPS have cars too; they donât just list their names for groups, they also list their group for names.
Some DPS drive fast, and some slowly. Inherent in all of this is traffic.
Again, this is the typical train experience that youâre describing.
You show up at the train station, each train (SoloQ) with some passengersâŠ
The car (LFG) experience, you get to pick and choose who sits next to you, and you have to go out of your way to pick them up (wait time/ barriers to entry).
Who cares if DDs have cars. They cannot DRIVE (aka, start the match) with out healers (and tanks in case of PvE).
And SS/M+/BGs/Raids are all instanced content. There is no road or tracks. So I dont know where the âtraficâ you mention will be.
A better analogy is the following:
A healer joins a group. IF the DDs are gigachads, its a bullet train. The dungeon/arena goes perfect. You go from start to finish in record time. No deaths. And no stress.
A healer joins a group. IF the DDs are absolute garbage, then itâs a car in LA trafic. The dungeon/arena becomes a slog. You go from start and have no guarantee to finish. There are tons of deaths and a ton of stress.
THAT is a better analogy.
And the difference between LFG and SS is that a healer (aka, limiting factor that has a popularity of 4.5% instead of 25% as it should) in LFG can choose a bullet train 100% of the time. And in SS he cant. Blizzard chooses for him, and sometimes its a car. Sometimes its a train.
Get it now?
The person listing the group is the one driving; they have the keys (M+).
Itâs an analogy; the âtrafficâ refers to things like barriers to entry, which are all part of the car (LFG) experience.
To avoid this, you take the train (SoloQ).
OK. He is driving⊠That person can list his key for 1000 yearsâŠ
But with out a complete group (aka, 3 DPS, 1 healer, 1 tank)⊠he can keep waiting. For ever.
So he is âdrivingâ where exactly? He has not even left Donorgal. He cant.
The NUMBER ONE barrier to entry for DPS is the lack of healers/tanks. Thatâs literally IT.
Like I said. You can sit in Donorgal all day. In LFG. In SS. In matchmaking. In ANY form of group content. It dosent matter.
With out a complete group you cant leave Donorgal. You stay there.
No, LFG is different, because itâs a matching market, so the number of runs is not equally distributed between all the qualified M+ players. Letâs say there is a +10 key, and 200 dps people are qualified for it objectively, many of them get invited faster, and others slower, based on preference of the group leader. So someone overqualified for a +10 is having a higher frequency of runs, while someone with lower qualification, but still adequate, is running way fewer M+, and is invited way less frequently. Tank/Healer disparity is causing this, but itâs amplified heavily by being a matching market.
My take is that for something as inconsequential as playing 30 minutes of a dungeon, a fully open matching market is not the best solution. Maybe the key is to limit the amount of sign-ups per group per 10 minutes to reduce selectivity. So if a group can have a maximum number of applicants in a given time frame, people will be less selective, as the cost of being selective is gonna be way higher.
OK.
Every healer that wants to play M+ gets to play M+. No waiting. Every tank that wants to play M+ gets to play M+. No waiting.
Not every DD that wants to play M+ can play M+. Some spend 1h to 2h waiting in LFG.
How is THAT not a barrier to entry?
If the ratio between healers/tanks/DD was correct (aka, 20% of players tanks, 20% healers, and 60% DPS)⊠then YES, you would be correct. But that is not the case. So you are incorrect. Or correct in a hypothetical scenario that dosent exist.
I get what you say. But I see no purpose in this train of thought.
If you have 1 +10 key. And 200 DPS applying for it. It means 3 will get in, and 197 will be left out.
It dosent matter if its a matching market or not. What we are discussing here is DD wait times. And anything you do to try and modify the âmatching markeyâ will simply make DD (A) wait less and DD (B) wait more. Its just shuffling stuff around for no purpose.
The only way to stop that, is to make the ratio between healers/tanks and DDs more equal. So either less DDs. Or more tanks/healers. There is no other possible solution.