Fix M+ in 500 words

Community General Discussion
241

If I was put in charge of M+ (which I am not) I would do the following:

  • FIRST: Simplify the vault. Now it would be: Kill X raid bosses (1, 2, 3), OR, do X dungeons (1, 2, 3), OR, do X delves (1, 2, 3).

What do you get for doing that? 6 tokens (2, 4 or 6. Depending on your unlocks).

What can you do with 6 tokens? You can upgrade 1 item. So from Veteran → Champion. Or from Hero → Mythic. Whatever you choose. ANY item. From Delves, Raids, or M+. All you need to do is get the item first.

What that means is that if you dont Mythic Raid, you are GUARANTEED to be full Myth track in 15 weeks (3.5 months). And if you take the time to farm BiS items, you can be full BiS in 3.5 months.

Which is more than enough IMO. If you do mythic raid, you get drops on top. So you take less time. If you do “easy content” that drops Veteran gear, then you take more than 3.5 months (you have to upgrade items twice).

Seems fair to me.

  • SECOND: Expand the use of Crests. Crests are underused IMO. They should add a vendor that sells you potions. Enchants. Stuff like that.

You could also buy key rerolls. And if they dont remove depletes, you should be able to buy key upgrades too.

  • THIRD: Remove the limit of crest looting. Now, you get crests 100% of the time and you can hoard them. No cap. The higher the key, the more crests you get.

So. One of the consequences would be this: If you deplete your +16. And time your +15… what that means is that you get say… 40 crests. And a key upgrade costs 20 crests. So for each time you deplete a key, you got 3 chances to re-do that key again in case you fail. If instead of a +15 it’s a +5, well you dont get that many crests. And you need do play more keys if you want to pay for an upgrade.

The cap would be in what you spend them in. So can only spend 90 crests a week on upgrades and things like that.

  • FOURTH:

This. Simply this.

242

Sounds good. Deterministic loot system >>> rng clown fiesta.

For that you’d have to get rid of the cap though, which I’d support anyways because timegating is just incredibly stupid and a lazy way of getting players to engage with your game for a longer period of time.

Ah, replied too early to that ig lol.

Would that include “upgrading keys”? Because if so, I’d argue nobody would use it until they’re fully maxed out.

Tbh, all of your suggested changes sound good to me. Better than the current system. Espescially the Great Vault, as it is now, is just a joke.

A once per week loot rng fiesta being the only source of gear upgrade without raiding (not accounting for hardmode taza because that’s just available THIS season and has a limited loot table) is just bad design imo.

Also no bad luck proction is a joke. Sockets are not that. I mean honestly, what does a socket do? Not even +200 on secondary stats. What does that translate to? A 0.02% increase? Laughable. That’s not even a consolation prize.

It should not be the case that some random 2.2k player, who depletes 8 +10s each week for vault can have better gear than a 3.5k rated player, just due to luck/bad luck.
Effort should be rewarded, not luck.

Ofc getting lucky with loot is a staple of RPGs and that’s ok as long as gear is farmable BUT if you have only 1 chance per week, this is no longer the case.

M+ is a great game mode which obviously could also be improved quite a bit but in my opinion it much better fits the current Zeitgeist of gaming than raiding does, so Blizzard should probably invest a bit more thought into it, at least if they plan on aquiring new players.

243

It’s amazing how smooth a key goes if you get dps who do good damage, don’t die and don’t stand in bad, oh and also kick.

Often you have no idea what dps you’re gonna get when you invite - you’d think inviting people with higher score would give you a better chance, but it doesn’t feel like it, it feels more like a lottery.

Also often if you invite people with too higher score, you get someone who doesn’t need the key for score and doesn’t care if it fails or not.

244

This is obviously true for pugging. People also can just have bad days, which influences their performance. You’ll never get any real consistency without running with a full premade group.

However inviting people with a higher score and better logs has a higher chance of success than inviting people with lower score and worse logs.

Is it a sure fire way of getting better players? No, but statistically speaking, you’ll find more success in doing so.

It’s not really about aiming for the optimal outcome for every single key individually. It’s more about increasing your success rate overall.

245

Yeah but if you invite someone with 3k score to a 10, are they going to really care if the key fails? Or want to try hard to time?

1 Like
246

Can’t speak for everybody, just for myself. I’m currently sitting on 3.3k+, as are my friends. We regularily sign up for 10s. Either just for the lulz or for an alt of one of my friends.

We always try to time it. With our gear and knowledge however, it’s almost impossible to not time 10s, so that might not be a fair comparison.

So bottom line is: Yes, I always try to time keys no matter if I need them or not.

Ofc there are people who don’t give a f. We don’t need to argue about that.

247

Its not entirely deterministic. You still have to loot the item you want to upgrade.

You could do LFR for example. But then you need 3 weeks worth of tokens for that upgrade.

You could farm 50 +7 dungeons for some gear. But then you would barely have any crests to do anything with it. Or to get pots and other consumables.

No. You could upgrade/reroll keys as much as you wanted. You could even upgrade a key to +30 if you wanted (GL timing that)…

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248

The item you want to upgrade, at least most of them, are just farmable though by spamming keys, so that’s fine.

Yeah, good luck even surviving the first pack, lol.

249

Someone with high rio is there to get his +10 as fast as possible. It is in his own best interest to 3 chest the get and get it over with in 15 minutes.

That is the case 99% of the time.

250

But it would be more efficient to farm that item in the highest possible key level. Not in the lowest.

40M white hits. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

1 Like
251

I’m fine with that, as long as I have unlimited chances instead of just “once a week”.

I mean even if the tank manages to survive… 1 random cast onto the healer and you’re done.

252

Of course we want to time it. And we do not need to ty hard to do that. When we do a 10 we do it for a vault slot. We aren’t interested in staying 1 hour in that dungeon. Just run it normally and because we are used to 4-5 key levels higher it is going to be a walk in the park.

253

It’s incorrect because someone’s preference isn’t a problem to be solved.

You like what you like, and evidently most people like playing DPS.

Comma, however, my character’s progression shouldn’t be tied to the whims of someone’s preference (be it in picking the group or picking their class).

Makes sense?

254

But why would they be doing 10s and not 12s, 13s or as high as they can push?

255

Shouldn’t but that’s how it is when applying to keys. (you can always play your own keys btw)

What’s the alternative? If you introduce SoloQ and are forcing “qualified” DPS onto healers and tanks, who have the freedom and privilege to just invite “overqualified” DPS into their groups in LFG, then no healer/tank would use SoloQ.

If you remove LFG and force healers and tanks to use SoloQ, there will be less healers and tanks playing the game. They’ll either quit or re-roll to DPS.

Tanking and healing in this game already is rather unattractive thus:

So making tanking and healing even MORE unattractive isn’t really solving an issue, it’s just shifting the issue.
Less tanks/healers available in SoloQ due to its population shrinking will cause queue times to get higher.

256

Because maybe you have a busy week and don’t have much time so you just rush through 8 +10s in order to fill your vault because this stupid game has no catch-up mechanism when you miss a single vault.

If you only do “keys as high as you can push”, the failure rate of those key will be at 50% to even 90%.
99% of untimed keys in the ~15 range get abandoned when there is no chance to time it → no vault slot.

Doing 10s is an easy and fast way to fill up your slots if you’re a bit time starved for the week.

TLDR: It’s the path of the least resistance to get your vault filled. Blame Blizzard for not providing any gear advantages for doing anything above +10.

257

So above 10 you don’t even get higher myth track gear from vault?

258

It is rather clear, isn’t it?

No.

259

Nope, it’s always just at base level (1/8). No matter what you do, you don’t get anything from doing anything higher than a +10 other than cosmetic stuff/titles.

Key level done above +10 doesn’t influence your vault at all.
You get a bit more crests for doing a +15 than doing a +10 but that’s so insignificant (I think 20-ish in total), that you don’t care about it, since doing 8 +10s caps your weekly crests anyways.

260

And how did the “gigachad” DDs progress then?

And how do you plan on progressing if you deplete all your keys because you keep being paired up with absolute noobs?

Cause those will ALSO be paired up in your keys.

Or what? You got the hubris of thinking YOU are the “gigachad” here? And that there cant be people worse than you? :smiley:

And you can do things to change this. And you should. Because until blizzard finds a way for dungeons to be ran with 5 DDs alone… you are stuck waiting in line. And getting your spot taken by people that are better than you.

And it wont be any different with matchmaking. Cause then you got the same chance as people worse than you. And better than you. You will get paired up randomly with gigachads as well. And with noobs. Both. Unfortunately… there are more noobs than gigachads out there… :frowning: To bad for your progress.

So… :slight_smile: You got 2 choices here.

  • More healers and tanks.
  • Be suck in a matchmaking system waiting the same amount of time you did before. With ZERO progress because you keep depleting keys.

Your choice.