Ahh, but I assume if you have all 10s done and are just doing it for the vault, you won’t get score?
Correct, you only get score when you beat a key a level higher than you already did (or you beat it faster).
So if you have timed a 10, you’ll get 15-ish score for beating an 11 OR if you beat the 10 slightly faster you get something around 2 score (this has a limit though).
So yes, running 10s over and over again doesn’t provide any score at all. People with high rio only do it for fast vault/crests or to help out friends.
Yeah, so my point was that if they don’t need the score and are just after a vault slot, they might not put in the most effort as if they were trying to push, over say someone who it is their first 10 and really cares about timing it.
The person who just wants a vault slot might not really care if the key fails or not. And if it does, they will just find another 10.
I’ve seen occasions when a high score person who doesn’t need the key will just vote abandon or if that fails, afk if they think the key won’t be timed.
Depends what your goal is.
I can give you an example based on personal experience to try and explain why:
- Last week I played a total of 17 keys. 6 were timed. 11 were abandoned because we wiped.
I did not have much time to play, so on Tuesday at 23h in the night I had 6/8 slots in my vault. As a result, I did 1 +12 and 1 +10 to get 8/8 slots in the vault.
And that way maybe it makes more sense why a 3.3k Shaman is applying for +10s.
Valid assumption indeed. It depends on the player.
As a counter argument, like Uda said, people doing this want to get through as fast as possible. This requires optimal play. Less dps = slower, wipes = slower.
So it’s also in their best interest to play good.
He might not care but he still wants it do be done as fast as possible.
This happens independently of whether the person needs the key for score or not. This happens all the time, especially in higher keys because people just do them for score.
For vault slots, it’s completely irrelevant whether the key is timed or not. Even an untimed key provides a mythic vault slot.
Yeah that’s true.
I’ve watched streamers doing high keys and some people (especially some dps players) have such weird behaviour.
They will complain about the route or something else and because they don’t get what they want, they play badly or trash talk, or spam surrender because they want to throw the key without leaving and getting a penalty.
But then, as a DPS they will have to wait a long time (because of competition) to get into another key. So not sure what time they save.
Wonder what they do with M+ with the new crest system, because in Midnight you get myth crests from +9 and above, but what are you gonna upgrade with them is just one random myth track item from the vault weekly. So any at least a bit active M+er will have leftover crests with no use.
A content dropping crest that is not usable on the gear dropping at the same level of content sounds kinda weird now, when the crests are no longer overlapping…
Yeah but I’d argue that you’ll find people like that over all rating brackets, not just 3k+ players. 
Some people are just weird.
That’s absolutely the same thing that’s happening already.
Higher M+ players typically only use gilded (highest) crests on mythic track items and crafted gear. Heroic gear only gets upgraded to 4/6 (now 4/8) because the fifth upgrade is “wasted crests”.
So the new system is actually better because it allows us to upgrade heroic track gear to 6/6 (or 8/8) without wasting the best crests.
I’ll give you that, yes. I assume it’s just so people can already gather some of the highest crests before they reach 10s. But…yeah…kinda weird.
That is not the reality of pushing keys. Most people are friendly.
Streamers make money with conflict. If I were to stream my keys, you would not watch me. There is “nothing happening”. No action. No drama. Just… gameplay…
Avoid believing what streamers show you. Its a show. A fictional show at best.
If you decide to watch streamers though, what you should focus your attention on is on the “tech” they use. How they do the dungeon. How they survive certain mechanics. Ect…
Usually people give feedback. In a friendly way. And YES, sometimes people might seem rude. But at the same time, they also have a point. Even the rude ones.
In high keys, an M+ route is not just about getting % in trash and that’s it. It’s about optimizing CDs, its about optimizing time… ect…
So when a DD sais that some packs were badly done. He almost always has a point. And the tank should take that as a learning point. And THEN ignore the player depending on how rude he was.
Is not it the same tho? Because if you do so now and upgrade heroic with gilded, the upgrades are free of crest cost until that certain ilvl on myth track…
More likely in Midnight you are now forced to get heroic item and upgrade it to 6/6 first in addition to myth item to be effective at myth crests spending at least in the beginning of season before tubo boost and going crest uncapped.
Also depends on how the discounts work in Midnight, but I expect the same. Cheaper on alts if you overgrow the crest type on main and no cost with the same toon until ilvl you already owned.
Actually based.
Routing is something you’re never really “done” with. There might always be some small time safe you could pull of depending on the comp you run.
If a DD points that out, you, as a tank, should consider his statement for your future runs.
If however he chooses to convey this information by saying something like “you **** should"ve *** done ** instead of that ** pul before second boss you absoltue ***”, then you should just ignore him but maybe still consider the information.
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No it’s not. Heroic 4/8 is ilvl 704, Heroic 5/8 is 707, while Mythic 1/8 is also 707. So if you choose to upgrade your heroic item to 707, you essentially wasted 15 crests per item, which adds up fast.
It’s an incredibly dumb system that basically punishes you for upgrading your heroic items.
You can observe pretty much any high level M+ player not upgrading their heroic items past 4/6 on season start.
With turbo boost, this changes because the cap is to be removed soon, but before that, nobody wastes crests on 5/6 heroic.
Depends on whether there is an item-level overlap or not, yes. I hope not.
That is the issue, I cannot imagine no ilvl overlap between tracks when hero and myth themselves have 6 ranks each.
What would be the ilvl difference between Adventurer and Myth track if there is no overlapping? 100?
We will see, too many questions with not many answers for now.
Fair point.
I mean, this game has too many different tracks. We could easily get rid of 3 of them at least.
Anyways the crests in midnight are going to be exclusive to their respective track, which is a good start.
What they then would need to do is so the “discounts” don’t cross-influence gear from different tracks.
Example: I have 710 hc chest, loot a new 707 myth chest but don’t get a crest discount.
Agree, 3 tracks with no ilvl and crest overlapping would be the cleanest solution of them all. And the ilvl gap between low and high end gear can be the same like now.
Sounds weird to be forced to regrind new crests of different type from higher content for ilvl you have already achieved, we will see.
I actually got PTSD from a tank in HoI +16.
I tried to explain to him the first 3 packs. 1st one is with BL. But then, his route was to go straight to the 2nd one right away with a triple pull. Instead of doing a normal pack to the right before the 2nd shard.
And I told him I just dont have any CD available. And people die.
So I gave him 2 options:
- Either take the 2nd shard right away, but just the shard + 1 caster (no triple pull) that we can shut down permanently (aka, kick all the time).
- OR, what most tanks do: after the 1st shard, go right, do a “normal pack” with out the shard, and THEN the shard when CDs are back up.
He did not want to listen. So I left after a couple of wipes (it was a Resi key). He kept blaming the DDs that were not using deffs. But the DDs were playing perfectly fine. They were using deffs. They simply ran out of them.
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I mean yes but they introduced these issues by implementing different tracks and upgrade systems.
Yeah, pulling 2 shards back to back is a death sentence indeed. I usually do a “recovery pull” after the first one with the houndmaster to the right and 2 additional packs in the yard and after that I go back to the 2nd shard.
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This logic doesn’t track.
If it did, DPS would be re-rolling to tanks and healers in droves because of LFG.
Do tell.
You must have some ideas on what can be done to entice players to roll as a tank/healer.
Here we go, this is going to blow SoloQ out of the water
So let’s hear it?
Absolutely: Here is a non-exhaustive list. There are more things I could add. Mainly addressing “combo-wombo 1-shots” in M+ in the case of healers, and more independence (tankyness) in case of tanks. For both specs, make a better feedback loop between DPS and HPS/DT.
We can discuss them if you want. 
But I can ask YOU that same question: If you KNOW that you get instant invites if you tank/heal. Why dont you? What would it take for you to try one of those rolls?
Ever wondered why people don’t want to tank and heal? Because it carries RESPONCIBILITY with it as well. What to pull, where to pull and keeping the 3 
DPSers alive.
While your average +10 doing DPS can just pew pew…heck if the 2 dps doesn’t start whining about giving a free carry then 1 dps can just autoattack as well.
All the perks me, Uda and Todeskodel have tried to tell you multiple times, comes at the cost that the tank and the healer has to somehow get those 3 monkeys through the dungeon…and lets not forget if the run goes bad = whose to blame? You guessed it, “tank for bad pull or healer for not healing…certainly not the non interrupting, in fire standing DPsers”.
If from all of this you still refuse to understand and think that healers and tanks will just flock to the soloq where they got no control whom they will be dealing with and obviously will “carry the responcibility” for said run.
Honestly… I dont want to even argue. Can you share that 
you are having? I want to join you in happy lala land as well cause you are obviously in a different reality than the rest of us are.