The toggle and the incentive creates the issue. Either make it a weekly toggle or remove the incentive. Alliance had so many rewards from this exploit I can’t even.
And by exploit I mean turning it on just for the quest and the turn it off. So overall when the server calculates the WM bonuses for the alliance side is still favoured.
After what the 3-4 months of Horde mode where Alliance barely could leave town without being ganked? The one IL 400 while we just had 385 from warfront? Which dropped the same gear. It was the US that got two IL 400s for us it felt more like mere compensation because of bad timing with reset day (you guys had a free 370 on Uldir openings day). The extra rewards was to lure back the pople that were bullied out and to bully out the Horde who only turned it on for the free 10% bonus. It worked out, not perfectly but we no longer have a 30% bonus or AOO quest, we are 15% while Horde gets 10%. A mere 4.545% more azerite or resources the Horde gets.
Like the Horde who all massivly turned it on after alot of Alliance left, after the Horde who 3 weeks ago all turned it massivly on again after we had 15% for several weeks just to get 3 weeks of AOO again… We were almost to 10% bonus and almost or perfect balance. Let’s hope the past 3 week was the last we ever saw of AOO and that we reach 10% bonus for both soon.
There is also high end problem to be solved (80% of mtyhic and M+ people on Horde and 70% of rated PvP) but this balances out atleast the world content. Not saying the AOO was a full blown sucees but over time it’s working out. Let’s be fair you’re in WM for accoassional PvP, we don’t need the old PvP servers back where 99% was 1 faction.
There’s no reason to restrict WM to 1 week, because there is no problem with WM on/off toggle.
Don’t make changes for the sake of it and introduce a real problem. If restricted like that, we lose a big % of the casual WMer in both factions permanently. We want more WMers, not less overall, ideally a balance of player types in both factions.
With aoo we theoretically lose the excess Horde freeloaders, which is not a bad thing, but gain Alliance freeloaders, who cares. Balances out the freeloader WM pop. Yet retains the core WPvPers and more determined PvE/PvPers. Going by blizz comments, WM is now more popular than ever, with better conflict levels than before.
PvP servers were eliminated for a reason, players being forced to PvP when they didn’t want to and imbalanced realms. I always have WM on, but I appreciate that others enjoy WM some of the time and don’t want it at other times. Nothing wrong with that.
It’s not an exploit to turn something on/off that is designed to be turned on/off. An exploit is when something unintentional is used to advantage. WM toggle is intentional design.
The incentive is about rebalancing WM faction numbers and player types for the region. It’s working. The amount of extra bonus received or aoo reward is inconsequential. 10% versus 15/20%, big deal. An extra 385 item every few weeks, srsly? Those are just incentives, and they have done a good rebalancing job so far. If rewards matter so much, it’s probably more efficient at times to WM off. WM on for PvE+PvP experience.
All those people apologizing the current system. None of it makes sense.
WM simply shouldn’t give 10%, End of story.
All of you are degenerates. I have my doubts you are using a monitor otherwise you’d see the pathetic mess “open world pvp” in an actual NOT OPEN persistent WORLD is. I’s a joke. Rationalize all you want, might as well go to the toilet and feast on the bowl.
That 10% is for PvEers that have extra gy walks… what doesn’t make sense?
Yes it encourages PvEers to turn on WM, they receive a consequence for that. It’s their choice to receive that consequence, and decide if more efficient to WM on or off.
Players can toggle WM on for any reason they choose, it’s up to them if it’s worth it to WM on.
It’s up to them what they do in WM while WM on.
Their choice.
But with consequences.
It’s up to WPvPers to dish out the majority of the consequences ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I don’t apologize for the current system, I appreciate it for what it is. Players that turn on WM just for bonus/reward, good for them. Players that WM on and don’t actually enjoy it, but then complain… very strange. That’s the only WM issue I can see.
There is no logical explanation from a balancing point of view for the current state of WM.
Sure if you are on the receiving side you will use all sorts of arguments like “omg horde did this” “incentives are fine”.
I’m sure you are all enjoying yourselves, now open those pockets for blizzard and pay for this joke of a game.
Complainers talk about logic… yet they tend to speak emotionally, sometimes insults, etc. Maybe they need to look at it logically for real…
1. Actual WM Issue:
Factions are not balanced in WM for region, as a result of WM imbalance glitch at start of BfA, that snowballed in Alliance WM off even after it was fixed.
2. Actual Problem:
Horde end up on overflow shards, this is terrible for WM. LFG can help, but we don’t want a complete absence of enemy faction on a shard. Before aoo, Alliance complained about being outnumbered (on shard) even after WM glitch was fixed… that was nonsense. Shards are faction balanced, unless overflow shard. It’s LFG that makes them temporarily unbalanced. That is just the game design, solution has always been LFG. Same for Horde now. Overflow shards are the actual issue.
3. Logic:
Rebalance factions to reduce need for Horde overflow shards.
4. Solution:
Incentives to encourage the outnumbered to WM on. Any change will always have consequences. I have never seen an alternate “solution” that doesn’t have worse consequences than the current one. The current solution works and has PvP solutions for any consequences.
5. Result A:
Better WM faction balance and player type balance, more WM on, increased conflict, less Horde overflow shards.
6. Result B:
A % of Horde unhappy about Alliance incentives. They can be unhappy, but if they think about it, having 10% bonus versus 15% bonus is inconsequential. Losing out on a 385 item every few weeks, inconsequential. Want good gear? Don’t do WM to get it lol. I only WM and am stuck on 390 ilvl.
7. Result Summary:
The incentives have done a good job, and WM being in a better position now than before is the end result.
8. Suggestion:
If bonus and 385 item is that important to a player, and they are unhappy with WM, it’s likely more fun and more efficient for them to WM off. That is the solution, and reason for toggle. Turn it on/off any time, but accept consequences.
9. Should there be changes to WM to assist the lazy?
The number of WM complainers could be less than we think. They tend to spam the WM forum with new posts, rather than add to an existing post. That makes it look like there are more complainers than reality. Fact is, majority of WM players don’t complain about WM. Should a minority and those too lazy to group up be rewarded with an easier WM… no, absolutely not.
I think that nothing can be done to please players who are interested only in PvE or PvP (fair) in a unscripted game mode that combines PvE & PvP one way or another.
To try and limit players or groups or raids or lvl/ilvl differences and send them to their own shards won’t be good for the organic nature of the mode itself, and would make it into a bad BG variation or just some very confusing mess.
Removing rewards won’t do any good for War Mode, because this game is built on rewards for doing any activity, so without those - even players who like to do WPvP would spend their time on other activities that can give them rewards to progress.
For players who only interested in PvE and don’t want to do anything with PvP - there is already an option. Only 10% greed prevents some players from using it.
For players who are interested in fair PvP conditions, sports-like mode, competitiveness with only equally rated opponents with same numbers - there is also options for that, and all of them provide much deeper reward/progression structure for additional enjoyment.
The core nature of WPvP and War Mode is a complete and total freedom. Not only in items/abilities usage, but also in players behavior / decisions / actions. Everybody has the same choices and options what to use, how, with whom, etc. So it is already an even playing field, where players on one side is a content for players on the other side and vice versa.
Players need a reason to be anywhere in the game, and that is where the main clash happens in WPvP. To please players who want a PvP part of WPvP to be removed or limited in any way - is to only cripple WPvP for the sake of PvE, and it won’t make any sense overall.
With all that, I see only two real problems with current War Mode, one major one minor.
The major one, technical - sharding. It very easy to abuse, it can’t keep up with overflow that happens with LFG, and it creates way too much lag.
The minor one, game-play - faction balance and incentives. I think it would be better if players where rewarded for doing War Mode and not for switching it on/off, on both sides, but without forcing players to stay in WM for a week etc. If players had something to work towards on a daily basis, and weekly, and maybe even monthly - that could be both, an incentive and rewards.
The biggest problem I think is not with War Mode itself, but with players perception. Before WM majority of servers where skewed towards one faction, WPvP is not something that was really happening in Legion, yes there were fights from time to time, but not even close to what is happening now.
Even on Defias, with as close to 50/50 population as it could be, when in Legion I attacked someone at WQ, more often than not, even players from my faction was telling me how bad this is because “he only wanted to do the quest”.
War Mode brought one drastic change - everybody knows that it’s a player own decision to click that button, and that makes that player a fair game. Plus no more one-sided servers, and WPvP started to happen again, with all it’s unfair unscripted glory.
So, all these players, who are used to little to no interruption in their World activities from WPvP, opt in to get those bonus rewards and expect the same as it was in Legion. I don’t think there is a way to please them without almost killing WPvP as it was in Legion.
I can only imagine the whine from those players when 8.2 lands - Mechagon zone shall be forever known as a Megamassacre zone. One hub for both factions and a zone with dynamic events and possibly faction controlled cannons/devices - so much fun so much freedom, and not so much for everybody, and it’s ok.
Damm you Coolgroove, restrict your typing - I do read a lot, but you sometimes make me cry when you attack your keyboard like that ![:cold_sweat:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/cold_sweat.png?v=6" ":cold_sweat:")
I wasn’t in for removing rewards or remove any PvE content from it, I use quest when I wait for people to show up.
And I chase rewards just as anyone else does
What I more are thinking of is, that I have been given the impression that people simply doesn’t view WM as pvp content in the game.
I believe that is a small mistake from the PR team
An Example of this I can come with is a conversation I was having in one of my guilds; I was questing in Outland and we were talking about WM, I said I would enable WM once I got out of Outland, where the reply I got was “Why, you get 10% bonus!” My reply was: “But I’m alone, I just disabled it because I didn’t meet anyone from our faction either, I want to pvp in pvp-mode not just quest” and of course the other was surprised.
I have a lot of times come across guildies who only is in WM for the PvE, and then rush away when they hear the other faction is lurking around.
I guess “so many rewards” means - one too many to bare.
Another horde player from Twisting Nether who got used to 5% Alliance population way too much. Now you have to actually engage in WPvP if you want rewards from it - deal with it.
Hahaha, damn me, well, sry, I like to talk when I have something to say, and don’t worry, I have a keyboard that’s made for a lot of typing - it can handle it ![:wink:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
Yes, agree, that’s why I talked about players perception - I think that it is the biggest problem - not seeing WPvP for what it is and expecting just PvE with minor issues.
PR/Community teams could do a lot better on that front.
Yes, I had a lot of those discussions too. Most of them were along the lines of “I need to get that AP/Emissary quick, before raid/M+”, some who knew what I do in WM were asking me where I am, ether to go the other way an avoid fighting, or if I had someone with me - to join and finish WQ faster, and then move on while we were doing fighting for them.
But there were awesome ones too - they joined for WQ and stayed to go back and forth with hordes, even skipped M+/Raid for that. So not all hope is lost.
At least now I’m in a PvP guild, so majority are talking about Arenas/RGBs, hehe.
See… you are being logical. That’s why you make sense
The complainers talk about logic, but are actually being emotional about this. Removing emotion, and looking at it logically… WM has never been better.
Looking forward to 8.2, and yes, Mechagon sounds like a kill zone, I hope so!
I can anticipate the forum complaints in a couple months tho… “I turned on WM and got insta ganked in Mechagon, make it a neutral zone!!”. The answer is… no.
For sure LFG has a big effect on balance. I have no problem with imbalance it causes though, because there is a PvP solution. LFG.
But ye, the lag that can result from LFG groups is not good. I have only really noticed it on top of a certain pyramid. However, it can theoretically happen without LFG. It’s not really LFG to blame. It’s the server power at fault. As long as the solution for that, if possible, is a behind the scenes server upgrade or something, and not a forced extra phasing out. I hate unnatural phasing, a legitimate issue. I’d rather suffer rare lag.
I think change consequences have to be weighed up. The idea of encouraging WM on with a weekly quest that encompasses all WM activities appeals to me. I see no negative consequence. The current incentives can remain, do their job, and in fact act as a positive with the WM weekly quest.
Having said that, I don’t see a reason to make WM changes just to satisfy players that are not engaging properly with WM. That is their choice. But, unifying WM activities in a weekly… the reason for adding would be it sounds fun, and could benefit WM as a side effect.
First - build that robot! It can craft bombs! Hopefully they finally won’t be on the same CD as potions and engineering belt, and maybe some of the other things will also be cool.
Second - scout the zone for potential players gathering for dynamic events, to know all hot spots, to see the fun stuff and to get items needed for robot and crafts.
Third - capture any structure that has a cannon-type-thing to rain down on other faction, if that’ll be a thing.
Fourth - always have an invis potion on you (if you don’t have baseline ability) to troll someone to attack you while in Mechagon, and drop aggro on them. I think guard there will be more powerful than Turtles, so it’ll work like a charm.
Fifth - keep an eye for possible game-changing secrets that this zone is advertised for.
If everything is as advertised - Mechagon shall forever be known as a Megamassacre zone. And if there is anything that can be achieved/rewarded only in War Mode - the fun would be as endless as cries of “unfair”.
Yeah, phasing abuse to escape is not fun, when I’m in a chase and me or my target/pursuers vanish because we crossed into the next zone and went into different phases is not fun, or bugs like Nazmir assault where you can phase in/out just by taking a couple of steps out of invisible zone.
I’m all for additions that will expand on current War Mode / WPvP - these types of changes and additions will make it better, and not changes to make it into something else that’s more convenient for players who are not in WM for WM in the first place.
Oh man, I hope Mechagon works like that. I was looking forward enough to the capture tower(s), hadn’t thought about Mechagon!
That’s it, exactly. So far I’ve never seen one logical complaint from a (lets name it) PVE-er who is unsatisfied with the current WM. They talk and talk, they twist words and meanings, but it’s very easy to see between the lines what they want - “I want the bonus without being killed and without the danger of pvp”.
Will Blizzard listen to them? I am afraid because Blizzard 1. focuses the game on PVE 2. takes into account the wishes of the majority of their customers and the majority plays PVE. What Ion said they are looking at, when he talked about faction imbalance? “How many players participate in M+”. Not “How many players participate in M+, WM, arena and battlegrounds.” M+ and raids is the important to him, everything else is a mini game.
Would Blizzard destroy the current WM model by modifying it in a way so PVE-ers would receive more while being less in pvp? I don’t know, but Blizzard look at PVE and everything about it first, and then decide everything else around it.
Ohhh bro…this topic is useless. I feel your frustration, because i started topics similar with yours, but with 0 results. Blizzard does what they want and they dont care about players opinions.
When you try to convince brainless garbages like:
…or like:
…or like:
…then you will realise that is useless. The game has many broken features, especially the World PVP concept. Its totally contradictory to “normality”, but idiots like above, praise it just because it fits their needs and because they get “extra”…for free. Yeeee xD
The “era” when the forum purpose was for people to post their complains and Blizzard’s staff to try fix and listen players it ended. We entered in the modern era of gaming, in wich players must accept what the devs offer or quit. Basically its: “Take it or leave it” . Plain and simple. Blizzard doesnt give a sh#t about players or comunity. If they would give, they woulded changed the WM long ago. They implement what they want and we must accept it without to complain.
Dont bother try to change something…its useless. I realised that after i haved a week argues on forum with thoose garbages mentioned above and noticed that nothing is going to change.
Ion thinks he is a “genius” that he will revolutionate WoW…sadly he will ruin it if he continue on this path he took since BFA started.
P.S. 1. : The garbages mentioned above will report me and the system will ban me for 24h. See you guys in a couple of days. Have fun.
P.S. 2. : The alliance players are the most garbage players ever. They have 0 honor and are total cowards. Everytime, and i mean everytime, no exception, when i meet a lonely alliance player, he avoids me,runs away or greets me. Just to not atack him. But, ohhh…god forbidd to have another ally beside him. Then the hell unleashes…they both start to atack this poor shaman, with such a savagery and bloodlust…like i would be Deathwing…the destroyer of the world. Alone? Total cowards. In group…full with courage. This was just a description to realise with what type of people you talk here on forum…garbages and cowards.
P.S. 3. : Vaeyn, Coolslave…the offer still remains. If you guys dont have money for a realm transfer, so that you could hunt me, send me pm in game, give me your account and i send you money. I dont joke. I really like to help poor people to be happy.
So if a feature fits the needs of some of the players but not your needs, you call this feature “broken”? Nice logic.
I could call M+ broken because I don’t like it, does it make it broken? Or rather people should laugh at me? The second is the answer.
And yes, you will have as many forum vacations as long you keep using offensive words, until you learn not to.
Well, when you have a advantage in farming resources,gold and AP, towards a oposite faction, no, you are right…its a disadvantage for the alliance. You deserve more…a free full mythic set, maby this way your pathetic alliance could do finally a world first…after a decade+ …
No, M+ its not broken. Just your brain. But that can be treated. You just need to ask help to the proper people.
Ohhh i am scared. What does this button do? xD
PvP happened in WM 
It’s ok to complain, forum is here to voice our opinions and discuss. Your argument is weak however, your points don’t stand up to logical scrutiny. The fact that you resort to twisting words and insults, shows that on some level you know this. But it doesn’t help your case at all, just weakens your position.
If you stick to logic you might get more support.
I suspect even people that agree with your general position on WM, won’t want to be seen agreeing with you lol 
Edit: that’s odd, the comment I replied to is gone.
noun [ C ]
UK /ˈɪn.sʌlt/ US /ˈɪn.sʌlt/
B2 an offensive remark or action:
She made several insults about my appearance.
The steelworkers’ leader rejected the two percent pay rise saying it was an insult to the profession.
The instructions are so easy they are an insult to your intelligence (= they seem to suggest you are not cleverif you need to use them).
Synonym
Insult:
insultverb [ T ]
US /ɪnˈsʌlt/
to act in a way or say something that is offensive or rude to someone:
Don’t insult me just because I can’t dance.
adjective US /ɪnˈsʌl·tɪŋ/
an insulting remark
verb [ T ]
UK /ɪnˈsʌlt/ US /ɪnˈsʌlt/
B2 to say or do something to someone that is rude or offensive:
First he drank all my wine and then he insulted all my friends.
Synonyms
affrontformal
dissus slang
Name calling:
noun [ U ]
UK /ˈneɪmˌkɔː.lɪŋ/ US /ˈneɪmˌkɔː.kɑː/
the act of insulting someone by calling them rude names
Sorry for going off toipic, just want to voice out something…
A debate is awesome because it gives every side of something, and it can be done without those things above 