it doesn’t have to be like that as someone else’s mistake should affect them since they’re just a random person who you group up with. this isn’t league of legends so calling it ‘‘team effort’’ is a very old way of looking things in mmos. if you fail , that should be your problem . raid design mindset is the same as it was in wotlk and that shows how little progress this game had in 15 years . if one people drops pool to roots, wipe. if one people drops bad defile, wipe. just more mechanics and harder but it stopped evolving.
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Just because you have an idea about something doesn’t mean it would bring forth progress.
If failing core mechanics wouldn’t wipe you they could be compensated for by gear or efficient use of healing/personals. This would trivialize difficulty, which makes no sense in high end content. And yes, a HC endboss should be that hard.
Bit odd someone whos clearly boosted by their guild is arguing how others can just be bad… Buying a boost or grey logging with your guild is the same thing.
As for fyrakk being too hard, hes not. Hes just very punishing but there isnt much to mess up so if people do theyre easy enough to correct or replace.
Also tanks generally being better players? Tell me youre joking… Tanks are often the worst players that think they’re good because theyre getting carried through stuff because tanking is incredibly easy. Yeah theres a certain responsability that comes with the role but it doesnt take that much skill to do 
After playing M+ pugs for a while, sometimes it amazes me that some folks are capable of soloing random open world “bosses” (not the group event ones) lol.
hc endboss isn’t hard tho. it just requires coordination & knowledge that’s it. everything already trivialized as boosts are being sold like boes . at least give players a better experience. no one’s asking for it to be like open world content. i’m just saying if we had more team soak mechanics etc. we’d have more fun with PUGs . wiping a raid over someone messing a tornado doesn’t make it hard or engaging in any way it’s so 2009
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I want raids to have individual responsibilities because ordering a dozen people to move and think as one isn’t compelling for high end players.
My guild’s favorite fight so far was mythic council, which needs coordination but also individual thinking as a tank or duck can cause a wipe.
council is a good fight tho it’s not like fyrakk. it can be pugged too and again, you’re talking from your experience with a guild (i’m sure you also do pugs but your progress seems to be with a guild) if you play with a guild fyrakk hc is easy. that’s why i’m saying pugs in mind mechanic design wouldn’t hurt. it doesn’t have to be exactly like soaks. volcoross for example is a great fight . if you die, you die but you don’t take the whole team with you. nymue, also good.
I find the whole concept of “bosses shouldn’t wipe raids” to be ridiculous.
Sure there are degrees of this, the worst boss for personal responsibility probably being the maiden of vigilence in Tomb of Sargaras where the boss could be at 1% health and if you derped the raid exploded.
Then on the other side we have the assertion that “the raid shouldn’t be impacted by personal fails, only the person should”. So if the boss throws a bomb on the platform (aka a seed on fyrakk) and you explode it then it should only kill a single person.
I mean, stahp, I can’t. 
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I pugged him plenty of times and didn’t saw any issues. Since most of the people have close to 483 ilvl right now, he’s dead shortly after the 1st soak so you only need 1 seed. The rest of the seeds are taken to the side so you won’t damage them by mistake.
I think I wiped around 5-6 times, but that was in the first week. usually now it’s 1 shot or 2-shot.
It’s not idiotic, it’s insanity. Do you need someone to share your insanity with?
I can’t agree that tanks are generally better players. Seen some awful wipes and huge damage to raids caused by bad tanking.
You can be inexperienced in any role IMO.
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these are your dumb assumptions - the explosion could do HEAVY damage but something you can recover - or maybe kill a couple people standing nearby not THE WHOLE RAID IN THE ENTIRE ZONE.
Man, people in this thread literally are black-and-white - you either can have 1-mistake-1wipe or LFR-free-kill - with literally nothing in between - that’s the dumb sentiment people show here.
I’m tired of “discussing” this. “Ooga booga u want free zug zug lfr kill”. get out.
Maybe you should learn to read a full post instead of cherry picking parts and flat out ignoring others. Like
Lets be honest, the root cause of this whine is because others make it harder for you to kill a baws, how dare they.
Get out yourself.
1 person makes it har-- impossible for 20 ppl, if anything
it’s just hard to find 20 people who knows that they should protect seeds and don’t hit souls , dispell constantly in p1 etc. even if they have logs rios , they can still fail and wipe the raid . not a fan of that . maybe not that many in one fight. it doesn’t make it hard for me it makes it tedious
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But at some stage a team is only going to be as strong as its weakest link.
If bad people can’t make a team fail then its not really a team sport.
Again, there are degrees of this but I think its perfectly reasonable for a last boss to have bits that you need to execute well or the team dies.
this. unironically - tedious is the word.
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but when that one person fails, good players leave before that one lol. yes it is a team fight but with pugs it becomes chaotic. the good healer leaves after one wipe and then you spend 10 mins waiting for another one but if that isn’t good it becomes something long and boring. raiding with guilds and raiding with pugs are totally different experiences. teams boost tindral & fyrakk under 20 mins with 10+ people not lifting their fingers but in pugs, it’s 19 active players failing because of one person’s tornado and it becomes an hour long fight with replacements
Convenience comes with downsides.
Communities like NoP have tons of HC runs where the group will stay together and fix oopsies. Thats the way the game is intended to be played. Otherwise it gets dumbed down to the lowest common denominator and you can’t have challenging content because horror of horrors you can fail.
idk i enjoyed all of the raid and fyrakk too but the heroic fyrakk being like this just isn’t difficulty i mean the difficulty is forming the good group not doing the content . other fights feel okay with pugs i mean tindral isn’t an easier fight than fyrakk but it doesn’t have that many personal mechanics and it’s still fun . nymue and council are also good. first 2 bosses are a bit easy ngl
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It depends, sometimes the player who caused the wipe will just be kicked. It just varies.