I don’t get this argument, yeah sure ive seen it. My rogue has been decline from dungeons because he lacks AOE. but it still only took 15 minutes to find a normal group. Leave the gate keepers to their business. We have 20000 people on servers now, plenty of people around to play with normally.
Ive been spamming for wotlk “classic” since wotlk ended, only for it to be ruined by people who clearly dont want to play wotlk … 
When why don’t you post pushing back against blizzard changes that actually ruined the game, instead of pushing for early access to a tool that aided in the downfall of the entire games over the course of the next 10 years.
I wouldnt be that harsh against pandas …
I would also understand gatekeeping boosters in default gear but this entire situation around the entry dungeons gear requirement is absurd.
Well… Speak for yourself. Firemaw might be well populated (at least for Alliance) but Ashbringer was completely abandoned just month ago.
It’s not because you have RDF than you can’t interact with people.
LF last Tank/Heal/DPS for + click on invite
It’s not because you have RDF than you can’t join a guild.
I have a guild, and it’s not because i have a guild than they play ONLY for me and connecting for my dungeons.
It’s not because you have RDF than you can’t make friend.
Also, not every players like you are here to make “friend”, people like me are making friend by chance, we are not looking for friend like you because you can’t do that IRL because you are the real anti-social here imo.
I have 0 problem to make friend, not like you apparently.
RDF is not playing alone, you need 4 others players to tag RDF.
And i’m not your mate, i don’t want a selfish player like you as a mate.
I’m not you ignore others here, just ONE, only ONE example :
Prove me i am wrong :
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The RDF killed the social: In 2010 maybe, in 2022 not. Wotlk private servers that disabled RDF proved it, TBC too, the “You think you do but you don’t” has never been so true.
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The RDF has killed the social bis: The RDF tool allows to empty the channels in order to let us speak freely on it, today the channel is spammed with announcements and if we have the misfortune to speak for fun we are insulted or ignored
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RDF is a tool, therefore not RP: The BG tag when slacking in front of an NPC or via the tool has never bothered anyone and it dates from Vanilla
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With the RDF people socialize less to group: Spammer “LF last tank for” with a reply in pm “Hi +1”, is not sociable. In addition, the Salute in question is still retrieved via the RDF once TP in the dungeon and/or grouped automatically, it’s just politeness
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With RDF people no longer talk in dungeons: RDF does not impact a person’s willingness to talk in dungeons, and this has been proven once again on Wotlk who disabled RDF. What makes players socialize in the dungeon is the combination of discovery + difficulty
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The cross-server RDF has killed the social: True, and we can very well not activate this feature, however we are already drowned in the mass since the servers are 2 to 3x more populated than at the time , in other words this defect is already implemented natively. In addition, the BGs are cross-server since Vanilla, and it has never bothered anyone
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With RDF I can’t group manually: False, you can make an announcement in the channel, group them and tag. Or go there on foot if you wish, it’s a principle called the Walk-in
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With the RDF I can’t make friends and keep them in contact: False, nothing prevents it, however there is no reason for others to keep in touch while the dungeon is clean in 15min chrono
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The RDF which allows TP in the dungeon is bad: True when you discover the game, False when you have played 10 years of play. The Wotlk private servers which have disabled the RDF have proven it, 5min of auto fly in afk Alt+Tab Google
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The RDF allows abuse of kicks: False, there is a 15min cooldown before the first kick, in other words the dungeon is already clean at this time. While a manual group gives full power to the lead and can kick at the slightest whim (lack of dps, no cc, not enough stuff, too much of the same type of stuff to need etc.) Worse yet, a person can leave the group without ANY penalty, once they get the loot they want right in the middle of the dungeon, imagine that if it’s a dps that tag tank to make it faster, roll dps, gain the loot and quit, with the RDF the person gets the “deserter” for 30min.
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RDF is not Classic: Indeed, that’s why Classic ERA exists, a server that has been neglected by its own fan base apparently “the best version of WoW”
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If you want RDF, go to Retail: If you don’t want RDF, go back to Classic ERA, the server you abandoned and which was nevertheless el famoso “the best version of WoW”. The RDF is part of Wotlk.
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It’s Classic not retail: Wrong, it’s Wotlk, just stop.
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Players will prefer soloQ RDF to get the buff 15% : Ok just remove the buff then.
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RDF should be implemented with ICC only : Wrong, RDF was a part of 40-45% of the total Wotlk life, and RDF is not a dg/raid content, it’s just a tool so as the game is in 3.3.5 it has to be in day one, exactly as the fly is 150%, 1.5sc casting, double spec, no CD every 3 days to craft an Titan Bar and 200 others things that we can list.
For more exemplaination read that =>
Yes and we did not have these things until ICC
- Summoning Stones: To use any Summoning stone, a character must be at least level 15. There is no maximum level to use these meeting stones.
- Health and Mana Regeneration: These regeneration rates have been increased up to 200% for low level characters. As the character level increases, regeneration rates gradually decrease, until returning to normal rates at level 15.
- Troll and Orc shaman totems now have their own unique appearance.
- Nerfed Oculus
- The distance at which these health bars are visible to players has been increased by 40 yards. (oh wait, isn’t already enabled on TBC ?
)
- The speed of improving the Norfendre reputations has been increased by approximately 30%.
Yes and we did not have these things until ToC
- Cast duration to summon any ground mount is now 1.5 seconds, down from 3 seconds.
- The skill Apprentice Rider (75) can now be learned at level 20 for 4 gold. A letter will be sent to characters reaching level 20 to direct them to the riding master.
Companion Rider skill (150) can now be learned at level 40 for 50 gold. A letter will be sent to characters reaching level 40 to send them again to the riding master.
The Expert Rider skill (225) can now be learned at level 60 for 600 gold from Honor Hold or Thrallmar masters. Faction discounts are now applied (Honour Hold for the Alliance, Thrallmar for the Horde). Flight speed at this skill level increased to 150% of run speed from 60%.
Artisan Rider Skill (300): Faction discounts are now applied (Honor Hold or Valor Expedition for the Alliance, Thrallmar or Warsong Offensive for the Horde).
To continue harmonizing the number of mounts available for purchase for each race, a new 60% speed ground mount has been added for night elves, and a new 100% speed ground mount has been added for Forsaken.- Object comparisons: by pressing the Shift key. while hovering over an item with the mouse now displays the stat differences from the currently equipped item in the corresponding slot.
- Portals have been added to Orgrimmar and Stormwind to lead players to the Stairs of Destiny at the Dark Portal.
- A new zeppelin dock has been added to Thunder Bluffs to allow Horde players easier travel to and from Orgrimmar.
- The local mail department got tired of walking so far each day to collect mail and decided to install a large number of new mailboxes in Stormwind, Undercity, Darnassus and Orgrimmar.
- All stackable potions are now stackable by 20.
Yes and we did not have these things until Ulduar
- All ground mounts can now swim without unhorsing their rider. Flying mounts still cannot swim and dismount their rider when entering water.
- DOUBLE SPEC
- Applying a glyph no longer requires being near a Lexicon of Power. The same rules apply for changing glyphs
- Players no longer need to complete the Nat Pagle, Extreme Angler quest to become Artisan Anglers. The quest rewards you with a special premium fishing rod. Players who have already completed this quest can visit Nat Pagle in Dustwallow Marsh to receive this new fishing rod.
RDF is not a RAID or a DUNGEON, it’s a mecanic/parameter like all i listed before.
You just want a CUSTOM WOTLK, you don’t like this game, go to Classic ERA and stop trying to ruin our game.
3 Likes
it’s so pointless not to have a rdf, the dungeon shouldn’t be something that takes a lot of time and isn’t an occasion for new acquaintances. The people who want rdf are much more than those who don’t, why don’t they make servers with and without, why should we suffer because of antisocial people???
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Sending a giant feature list doesn’t help the fact that you ignore my arguments. I have not been here arguing about RDF ruining social aspects of dungeons.
As I have said before, when given a easy route humans tend to take it. If you can’t see the correlation between giving players the option to press 1 button and get everything they need out of it, why are people going to even bother trying to find guilds or friends.
No using RDF does not put up a wall stopping players from doing these things, it just encourages players to become complacent especially with the buffs and extra rewards the original system offered (yes I know you said remove them I did read it all) but even without the rewards, having the option to negate social interaction entirely will lead to large portions of the player basing doing just that. And as always, the more people do it, the more people follow, people get board of pushing back and fall inline.
Additionally, I am not for the timeline push up of features. So this has nothing to do with my argument, yes get rid of all non-wotlk changes blizzard have added, and yeah sure role back the quality of life feature until their correct time, but there is still a huge difference between crafting time improvements, mailboxes and not being dismounted when swimming and an entire system like RDF.
The reason why people pick RDF out of the pile to attack specifically is because of the long term effect it had on wow. The initial introduction was mostly boo’d but it wasn’t entirely game breaking. The issue was it was the first step, this opened the door to many other systems being introduced the further degraded the MMO experience. Literally Raid finder was just the next logical step allowing players to literally AFK in a city and have the entire PvE experience.
We remember the sudden drop off in players when cata launched, not just because of people leaving, but also the number of people with out guilds went up, seeing guildless people use to be rare and suddenly became common as so much content could be Automated and low difficultly raids could be pugged. There is real concern that introducing RFD at this stage could simply speed up this process.
I won’t accept “they have already screwed it up” as a good argument, I don’t want the changes they made, my friends don’t want them and many others don’t want them.
Basic QoL improvements like item comparisons don’t negatively impact the game in anyway, they where added as direct improvements, to fill in a gap or flaw in the game that should have always been there. Other changes should have never happened at all. Brand new changed for classic like Heroic+ are a mockery of everything classic was suppose to stand for.
Protest against the bad changes, don’t use them as a reason to push for more bad changes.
this repeated concept of “RDF does not kill social” is dumb, it does not stop it, it does not hinder the ability to do it, it simply remove a large part of the need for it and the proof of that is literally written in history. They added it in during the most popular time of the game ever, as soon as cata launched, RDF, removal of talents and unfinished content sent the subscription numbers falling out the sky to this day.
If you can’t see the role it played in the downfall of the game, then fine, nothing I or anyone else can say will change your mind, you are just one of those players who liked it. But tell that to the 10 million people left he game permanently over the passed 10 years, they will all tell you the same thing, RDF was the turning point, the one system and feature that started the biggest downfall in the history of gaming.
2 Likes
In what way is RDF related to that? It’s complete conjecture at best, at worst it’s just parroting.
Back then I was playing all the time and I was also posting on the forums daily. There was more posts about “where is Pandaria” than anything like “RDF is bad”
1 Like
People were leaving because Cata was garbage, trash story, trash zone design and absolute butchery of gameplay and class design …
Not because of RDF …
If what you say is true, then it should actually increase on cata, because early cata HCs were harder and were much smoother if done manually not automated …
Also people without guilds ? Come again ?
Completely ignoring guild perks that made guilds basically mandatory …
If anything Cata is reason why we have all these garbage “social” and “leveling” guilds, that are just traps for new players and 46541374 people in guild and absolutely empty chat and dead interaction …
And even with RDF we still continued doing dungeons in premade, because it was faster and easier than waiting for randoms …
If people really care so much for interaction, they will continue doing it too, using it only to fill missing last spot when guildie or friend are offline for that 2 in the morning random run …
1 Like
Start making your own groups! You do know you can invite anyone you like to your party, you don’t have to rely on others to make your groups?
Personally I think the social guild was a good thing.
We had one from people from the forum, we played together for quite a while.
They are not bad idea …
The issue starts with everyone and their grandmas dog wants to start their own guild and then spam every newcomer who doesnt know any better with invites …
Then it becomes mass graveyard and people are stuck there because they feel bad for leaving and going to some actual guild …
It becomes basically toxic relationship xD
1 Like
Aren’t you missing the point a bit. Yes the first run that non geared player will be leeching as you call it but during the run he or she will get gear and the next one he or she does, with you or someone else they might not be leeching. By letting the player run the first one with your group you have just increased YOUR chances of finding a group further down the road.
You have also been inclusive not discriminatory and may even have made a new friend.
That is the social aspect of all MMOs, not just WoW.
1 Like
That’s not really how it works is it. People that are geared to the balls will not replace their gear until heroics, some cases even raids. All a lower geared player does when they join the group is lower the XP rate. If it’s a heroic run then all they do is slow down the run and if you’re aiming to do all dungeons in 1 night it can mean success or failure, because a 15min run might become a 30 min run and you don’t have that much time.
I’ve done all the dungeons a few days in a row now and occasionally with pugs. I just invite whoever /w me to be honest, but it does take longer when one Warlock is doing 5000+ dps and a for example Fury Warrior is doing 1500 dps. Both of those are realistic numbers I’ve seen a lot.
Also, one healer you can chain pull an entire dungeon, another healer needs a mana break every pack… It’s fine, but if people want to gear fast they aren’t inviting those players. Those players can make their own groups or join other groups.
TLDR : If your group is fully geared and you want to get your dungeons done before you gotta go to bed for work in the morning, you’re not inviting someone in greens with no enchants when there are plenty of well geared, optimised, experienced players looking for groups.
How can i counter argue against a man who is talking every time in the past and with outdated argue like i countered in my post. And also saying false argue for cata. And then being surprised to being ignored, ofc lol.
The simple way is playing the game.
The pre-patch proved to me (again) that no RDF does not improve the social.
And again now.
LF
+1
click to invite
click to suggest to join
Hi
Buff please
AoE during 15min
Ty all cya
++
This is the entire reason for this thread. People manually creating groups want others to outgear the content and be the most optimal for the easiest experience, the path of least resistance. Everything else is shunned. Too low geared not invited. Same class as me? Not joining your group. Might roll on my trinkets, not interested in playing with you.
Also;
If you think RDF was the reason player numbers dropped off after Cata launched. Then I have news for you.
The players base complained that Wotlk was an expansion of welfare epics and Heroics were meaningless. So, they buffed Heroics, and the players screamed “No, no, no, Blizzard, not like that!” and they subsequently nerfed them. The damage was already done. After 2 years of easy Heroics and the release of RDF the casual dungeon enjoyers used to running dungeons had already been pushed out/ become disenfranchised with the change from accessible dungeons via RDF to the harder, longer dungeons.
Absolute fiction and fairy tales
1 Like
Well again, people picked out 1 or 2 points from the entire thing and went along with that and I am not going to go through everything again just to reiterate points that will be purposely ignored. So if this forum is just a place for mindless “No I am right and you a wrong” threads then fine let’s do that.
RDF won’t be added any time soon, most players didn’t like it when it came out, most player don’t like it now. You want to meet the people who want RDF added to the game? Well done you met them all, here they are, in these threads. Everyone else is either indifferent or actively does not want it.
So have fun, enjoy, I will go and enjoy an evening of my RDF free game.
2 Likes
It was Mist of Pandaria where they removed the talents not Cataclysm.
Cataclysm had probably too much changes which might have led to decrease of player-base but I personally consider cata as good expansion and simplification of talent tree was not bad idea. Not all the changes to classes were bad either. Quite contrary.
It wasn’t till Mist of Pandaria when they have overdone the simplification and made the game sort of parody to itself which lasted till Legion where the game became interesting again in terms of game mechanics.
RDF had very little if at all to do with decrease of player-base in WoW.
If anything, you can only say that it was the first step that led towards the downfall, but none of the later changes which ruined WoW were made just because RDF.
1 Like