yes, it’s very valuable to use Infernal as 1 sec CC
It’s kinda in your damage rotation, so hardly ever be useful as proper “root”. Most of the times it’ll be DRed.
WW DK is side of others and I don’t have to imagine, I played with it as healer, I saw it in tournament
clearly broken comp by offensive pressure they have, sustain damage they have and powerful defensive cooldowns to rotate through and survive and every single go
Warlock were too op against physical and now still too op in the cc aspect. They should nerf both lol. Can’t be right some classes has around 8 seconds of cc per minute where warlocks has 16secs per dr rotation. It’s disgusting.
Eww, get that TBC/WotLK mentality out of here.
No the Side that has absolutely no chance against you as Destro.
tournament realm where they have all bis and same ilvl > ladder which we play on and have 3xtimes more locks than those broken dks and dh in top 200 rofl this dude is a lose case stop feeding the troll or whatever this guy is being.
Not 100% accurate but true. DH/DK/X is getting much stronger with full gear as they both scale well. Warlocks are on top of the ladder as before mana regen nerf DH was considered “poo poo”. This change made them insanely strong. What I also find is that besides Tren and Nasseh there aren’t many DH mains. Some people like Blizo or Raiku play them on alts but they will never push rating on DH over pushing on their mains. From US I know only Trill from DH mains. Other player that is considered top DH is Thugonomicz who mains Warlock so…
Maybe if the Monk is garbage, but even skill cap acknowledge it. Destro has no chance if the Monk is non-garbage.
I wonder if you meant seeing it other side as your POV or your comp POV.
It might be very well the case that you have no chance, but Monk has.
yeah thats why swapxy, who has a lock as an alt for years now, played his dk 99% of the games (pre nerf btw)
Surely locks are op.
1/10 logic
For the records mister Monk 6+3+1.5 isn’t 9.5. Aside from that yeah Warlocks are a bit too powerful on the CC side. It’s not really important that they can keep people cc’ed for so long, it’s the fact that they can keep 2 people cc’ed with coil, mass stun with shadow fury, spam fear on one player then on another for full effect, and ALL THIS WHILE when there is a 1.5s cast window there goes a Chaos Bolt that rips off 20% of our health bar without any proc, trinket or cooldown.
Finally someone who understands what the problem is. Warlock can also root some specs that don’t have root removal just to get free CB. Imagine playing Destro/Mage/H pala as any caster cleave with 1 interrupt. It’s just pure cancer.
not true
25k hp != 20%
That’s an easy win for any Ele / X comp. Nothing cancerous. Probably the best comp you can meet against yourself.
Oh the baise. Every class can shut down my lock, so destro is garbage.
Nah m8 the problem is with you
If you hit 25k then you have stats issues, try stacking the stats that are actually worth it. I have a friend who FOTM’ed a Destruction Warlock, but has weak gear and is terrible at it, and (no personal offense meant) just says the same things as you “no I only do 25k when it connects it’s hard to play people Los me poor me” then he logs another char he’s better at, we queue into real Warlocks, no infernal, no trinket, no Dark Soul, and the Chaos Bolts are between 35k and 45k. On average what I’m hit by is between 39k and 40k. People have a bit more than 200k hp, 40k is 20% of 200k so yeah if you have gear and have 220k health a Chaos Bolt from a Warlock WITH DECENT GEAR AND NOT RANDOM STATS is not 20% but more like 18.2%. With close to, or even lower than 1.5s cast time with Backdraft. Again, nothing personal, I don’t care about you specifically but if you only hit 25k without set up all the time then your Warlock has a serious issue. Any stream with decent players will show you that when there is a Chaos Boltx the health bar MOVES. Yes Warlocks get kited all the time and it’s not fun. Yes it can be hard to actually cast against a few specific comps. But genuinely believing Chaos Bolt damage potential is stuck at 25k without cooldowns is a severe misconception of the actual class. But then I don’t know who you queue into, what gear you play with… If you happen to queue into freshly dinged Warlock and have been unable to stack the right stats yourself then maybe the damage you’re used to is terribly low. However we don’t use supbar characters to look at the game, we use somewhat optimized characters played by good players. For instance a bad Windwalker with full crit and who doesn’t know when to use his mobility spells will do little damage, not move a lot and be killed when we know for a fact that the class has high damage and is one of the most mobile in the game at the moment. He might then say “my class doesn’t deal the insane damage the forums speak of, nor does it has the unmatched mobility I heard of because I’m getting caught all the time and I can’t catch up to people” but the reality of things is that he is bad at Monk AND hasn’t optimized his character. That’s why we look at the state of Monks by looking at extremely good players who set their character as best as possible, and not by looking at this mediocre player I spoke of. Same with Warlock. Your point of view, your feel of the class, even your experience of it all have their own value (and forums are here so players can exchange) but depending on your actual relevance on the pvp scene it can hold little importance for very obvious reasons. Again nothing personal, but really when I see you’re convinced Chaos Bolt is 25k… Well if you do 25k I’ll pray for you so you can actually get decent loot.
that makes me wonder if this is not some made up nonsense, why didn’t tournament players figure it out
even commentators were suprised how little damage chaos bolt did, calling it baby bolt after it hurt target for about 10% HP
I don’t just “believe it”. I see it on my Warlock, I see it in tournaments. The only place I don’t see it in is comments of random idiots on forum, who also claim that coil has 30 second cooldown and similar nonsense, so you can’t seriously expect that your word, proven by nothing, is anything that’d matter to me, do you?
Melees saying that playing against destrolocks is frustrating. LOL.
The real problem with the nerf is that affects afflilocks and demolocks just as much, while nerfing destrolocks in the one thing they needed: defense against melees, while having 0 effects on their capability of thrashing casters.
I, myself, never preached any wrong info about the Coil cooldown or anything else. Answer me with relevant messages, don’t associate mistakes made by others with me. Now for the proof, I didn’t prove my 40k, you didn’t prove your 25k. Same stuff. Now if you somehow manage to show me a 25k Chaos Bolt with your character I’ll be able to show you 40k ones with other Warlocks. Different stats different gear I guess. So proving that would be 100% pointless as we’d both manage to do it. The important detail though is that even if some Warlocks do hit 25k (I’ve met a lot) some manage to go for the 40k and these Warlocks are the issue. The thing is, given the right character optimization, any Warlock can turn into a 40k Warlock at some point, because that’s how the class can be.
About Tournaments, I thought it was obvious that we shouldn’t compare Tournament realms to live, since they have access to everything there, which means azerite levels not present on live yet, ilvl and amount of stats not present on live yet, and last but not least the perfect stat set up wished every game. As a matter of fact most players went full versatility with the perfect gear pieces allowing them not to butcher their other stats, and very few players can achieve that on live because of rng loot. Why would they go full versa? Because a lot of classes actually do retarded damage and versa is a soft counter to it. Chaos Bolt is in that list among many other things. Also, since they have full max ilvl gear with upgraded azerite they have way more stamina than the actual players on live (azerite being the best source of stamina) which means damage is lower on % of total health.
Since comments during tournaments are proof enough, this versa gearing theory, as well as the little stamina statent I just gave you, were vocally told several times during said tournaments. In addition, there were a lot of warlock games during which the commentators said next to nothing else than “will he get the Chaos bolt will he will he?” and when said Chaos Bolt connected it was 2 major cooldown going off, until none were here and the team on the receiving end of the bolts would lose. Same “proofs” as yours, opposed arguments, how do we decide who’s right, tell me?
What’s frustrating (to me at least) against destro isn’t linked to being melee or caster it’s just the cc they can throw without losing actual damage for it. The damage in itself would be fine if there were less things to prevent it being healed/make sure it connects/allow teammates to do whatever they want to the opposing team.
It’s actually easier to play against a warlock as melee, and it was even before the nerfs, just because it is easier to dodge or interrupt the casts, I don’t think anyone ever disagreed on that. It’s currently terrible being caster against destro, but it’s been a couple of pvp nerfs we’ve seen nerfs totally uncalled for, nerfing a to be nerfed class but on the wrong field.
And yeah it is very bad design that the nerf hit another spec, it didn’t need nerfs, quite the opposite. If I’m right it’s only one of the two, the other doesn’t have Demon Armor, right?
The thing is, destro locks are only overrepresented in the 3v3 bracket, because their shortcomings (lack of CC and incapability of avoiding melees) are made irrelevant due to team composition, while their advantages (passive tankiness and high burst) are multiplied.
Destrolocks in 2v2 are played, quite a lot, but are not even close to being a top 5 class.
Not only that, the nerf is affecting not only destrolocks but also affli and demo locks, with have 0 representation in arena.
Personally, I would have proposed the following changes:
Make demon armor a baseline ability, but nerfed: 5% extra stamina, 100% armor. The pvp talent would improve it’s effects to 10% and 200% (so still weaker than the pre nerf, which was 10% and 275% iirc).
Nerf the damage reduction destro locks get from mastery.
Make demonic circle baseline. Make the talent give the old sprint after using it that we had in Cata.
With this, destro locks would have been significantly less tanky, while a bit more mobile (so higher skill cap), we would have gotten more pvp talents variety, and afflilocks and demo locks may have became viable.
Having said that, its a bit annoying seeing melees complaining about destrolocks having “too much CC” or “too much control”. Yep, I guess punching bags trying to fight back is something they do not like.
This is actually very wrong and shows you don’t understand Warlock and is one of the reasons that I don’t take your made up numbers seriously.
It’s useless to go Versatility as Warlock, when Mastery provides more benefits defensively.
No but other people whose case was “believe me” did.
You’re one of those people who hide their position behind “believe me”.
Well, I don’t believe you.
Why would I when you acknowledged it as something possible?
No need to prove something that nobody doesn’t doubt.
All Warlock specs are currently viable and very f#cking fine. You got healer and another partner there too.