There seems to be a guilt. Even though she was a Menethil she done nothing for the Forsaken, or the living survivors of Lordaereons.
She overlooked her murder at the hands of Sylvannas.
But it is a big picture. Gilneans have fiercly been waging war against the Forsaken. But with the same country they were driven out of being handed back to them. It could foster some good will. Failing that momentary respite.
Perhaps Calia Menethils is thinking of the long game. Playing Chess.
Baine stood against the enslavement of the Undead while literally all of the other Horde leaders stood by and done nothing. The Horde spits on their “honour” all the time but not Baine.
Derek Proudmoore showed everyone that the Forsaken were always Scourge.
Force a long dead person into Undeath. Then torture him to turn him into a bio weapon to kill as many of his own people as possible.
Gilneas belongs to whoever conquers it. And seriously, learn to spell.
And Calia made the call, backed up by Lilly who has been changed so much since BFA she seems totally insane. But they didn’t even bother to bring up the other two members of the council, Belmont was at the forefront of the Gilnean conquest and I can’t believe he had no objection to just pulling out the Forskaen like that from a fortified position.
Anyway, if you are gonna come here and try to convince me that Calia is a good leader for the Forsaken don’t bother. I’m not gonna buy it. I’m sick and tired of Alliance-Buddy Horde faction leaders.
The problem is that so far forsaken were portrayed as mad dogs. I know, some liked that. Most of the other Horde nations did not. It is hard to say “Horde is righteous” when they contain “old” forsaken. So now we have the “new” forsaken, who lost everything that made them unique. So, yes, Calia is a “good” leader for “new” forsaken.
The problem? Why is that a problem? And no, not just some, most liked that cause I don’t remember anyone rolling forsaken cause they wanted to make them nice guys. Nice guys don’t work.
And I don’t want to say the Horde is righteous. That’s wrong. It’s an Alliance thing. Where everyone who joins instantly takes up the human morality. They are good or bad based on the human morality spectrum and nothing else. That was no an issue for the Horde and that’s what made the Horde interesting. Now they want the Horde to adhere to the human morality and that REALLY does not work.
And Calia isn’t good for those new forsaken as long as there’s a Horde and an Alliance, because even if not at war or in conflict these factions will compete for something and Calia seems to represent the interests of the Alliance rather than the Horde or the Forsaken even.
Since Cata, Horde were the protagonist of WoW, alliance was something as a NPC faction. And because some people get bored to be the “bad guys”, you have the “Righteous Horde”.
I suppose that after BfA fiasco, Horde and Alliance will be buddies for a long time.
That’s because the Alliance was a poorly designed faction. Think about it. You have two factions. The Horde and the Alliance. You have two moral codes. The Horde had a more realistic approach to morality, making it be based on a more case-to-case scenario rather than some inflexible code and they had to since they were the factions that banded together to survive and all that, which implies you must tolerate some deviations.
Then you have the Alliance. Very bad design when it comes to morality. The Alliance morality is more like a hive mind, every race that joins takes up the human morality and deviations from it do not exist. That is not only boring but has wrecked the identity of each species that is part of this faction. Everyone is trying to be good. The human good.
Problem is instead of making the Alliance more like the Horde, the douchebag writers which I hope were removed, they started making the Horde like the Alliance. The worse hit were the Forsaken who were never good, not even close. But due to the limited imagination of the writers, they got turned from crazy maniac zombies into ugly sad humans cause it seems California can’t produce people with imagination these days. Screw it. I’m too tired to continue ranting.
I agree with this sentiment. It does not make sense.
The Forsaken killed her brother. Other Gilneans lost their sons and daughters brothers and sisters husbands and wives fathers and mothers. Talking with Gilneans returning some children that were fleeing did not know what is happening at the time but now adults.
Peace has it’s uses. There are no such thing as infinite armies. Time will be needed to replenish ranks - regain lost combat power or grow further.
It is foolish to underestimate the Forsaken. They have been written to be some kind of powerhouse lately. They are still the same scourge they always was. Many Forsaken still blame Menethil’s for their undead state. Arthas they have no power to strike against. But Calia is the next best thing.
Giving the Gilneans back Gilneas was a tactical gamble. That could pay off or blow up in their faces.
The Alliance does not tolerate the Undead.
It is bad story telling that Jaina and Calia’s friendship did not end with her death.
There are no Alliance interests Calia represents. To clarify for you. Her GUILT for the dead is what is driving her. Having done nothing during the rise and fall of the Lich King. Now in Undeath she chooses to serve the Undead that she failed in life.
Calia isn’t even undead. She’s an abomination written in to destroy the Forsaken identity. Blizzard even lied to us assuring us she won’t be the leader. Shows how much they care about actual Forsaken fans.
She has a funny way of doing it since her frist act as a Forsaken council member was to give up a fortified position the Foraken fought like hell to conquer. So we gonna keep playing this pretend game where you try to bs me that what’s happening isn’t happening? Cause I don’t want to play.
Some among the Alliance do not like being in debt to the Horde.
Greymane was correct. The Horde drove the Gilneans from their homes in the first place. But the Horde chose to purchase time through peace. For now the Gilneans must recover must rebuild.
Incorrect. Jaina Proudmoore sold her father and Kul Tirans to the Horde thinking it would purchase peace. It did not. There are many that smoke the peace pipe.
Another Menethil ruling the dead. Sylvannas went from High Elf Ranger General to banshee queen. But we all know she will return someday.
The Scourge effected all of Azeroth.
Without Horde leadership the Horde will have no direction.
Fantasy racism does serve its purposes in a lot of games. Literally all Skaven should be purged from Warhammer Fantasy. Yet the filthy rat men are surprisingly resilient. Skaven females are always high and always pregnant as skaven society (if it could be called that) is very much male ruled.
Humans vs Orcs have been a main theme for decades. Orcs have been a net negative to Azeroth since they came through the Dark Portal.
The Forsaken can not “match the might of Stormwind”. Not without plot armor.
Yes that is bad story telling on what Calia Menethil actually is. But she had a pow wow with one of the Undead in Maldraxxus. That attempted to explain it.
Interesting take on it. Gilneans will be focused on rebuilding. With the Tess Greymane era they might not be so…militant against the Forsaken. Without the Valkyr that followed Sylvannas to the Maw replacing their ranks will be a challenge for the Forsaken.
A leader has to see the bigger picture. With Gilneas back in Gilnean hands any Scarlate Crusade / Onslaught incursions becomes the Alliance’s problem.
Think chess player not checkers.
Yeah that was Blizzard’s crappy writing team way of trying to shut us up cause Forsaken players have issues that their new leader is a bad joke, a contradiction that’s probably been produced by someone who watched way too many of those big-eyed Japanese cartoons. It changed nothing. She’s still an abomination and Metzen better wake the hell up and either fix her, or remove her.
Let’s face it, the Glineans have no chance against the Forsaken. Maybe a bit more with Tess who is actually much smarter than her daddy who lost his kingdom just cause he didn’t bother to take a look around him. But alone they would have no chance in hell against another Forsaken incursion and I’m talking about the current homeless Forsaken.
And leaving aside that the return of the Scarlet Crusade is a total piece of crap, because they returned for where? There’s nowhere left, they have been wiped out from every place they resided in, the Scarlet Crusade attacked Ferniz island which is in Forsaken territory so no, it’s not gonna be the the Alliance’s problem, cause Calia gave up gilneas which is a fortified kingdom, the Forsaken settlements outside of the Undercity are much less so, so if they are gonna attack someone logically it’s gonna be the more exposed target, the Forsaken. So I guess you’d make a crappy leader if that’s the big picture to you.
I rarely agree with Erevien but the Horde leadership seems confusing. There seems to be a council for everything now. Not decisive leaders - shot callers and decision makers. Problem with democracies is that could lead to everyone pulling in different directions.
That is incorrect. The Gilneans were facing a civil war against the Worgen. Was defeating the Forsaken, Found a way to control the beast withing, still defeating the Forsaken. To the point where the Forsaken had to get Horde assistance to turn the tide.
Then after being displaced the Gilneans were still taken the fight to the Forsaken whenever they could. Forsaken have Undercity - have the backing of the Horde and still was a stalemate with the Gilneans.
The eyes of the Alliance have yet to see what kind of ruler Tess Greymane will become. She could be playing the Forsaken.
Again with the bad story telling. Scarlet Crusade is not a threat. They were just spawned in as a scapegoat for lazy story telling.
Forsaken failed to notice a Scarlet Crusade army sneaking in to Gilneas? They are not that incompetent.
Gilneans will probably not wall themselves off again. But it can be better fortified against future incursions.
For now the Gilneans are focusing on rebuilding their nation. News will reach Gilnean settlements that their nation is back in their hands. A stronger Gilneas would accomplish much.
Bigger picture yes. Forsaken can spend the time to fortify their own positions. or if the rumours are true then leaving Undercity to have a city on the surface.
It is rare for the Alliance to break the peace.
neither the forsaken against gilneas, especaly with the scraletts still lurking in the shadows.
SHalll i remind you loredorn is still in ruins and need to rebuild, and UC only save by the champion and Calia during the heritaghe questline.
Laos previsuly the forsaken had an hard time aginst gilneas at the moment they wen unified against the, nearly pushed the out of gilneas in the solverpine questline and the even nearly out of that, only saved because lorna get ehrself get capured and her dad sacrife the (biger) victory for the life of his daugther (the daugther who shoud are being an commander puting you life an danger, and accept to safirve it if needed for the bigger goal)
and all i hear…mimimi…ist unfair the worgen get gilneas back mimimi…
Like, “if” the alliance get loredon…you guy were teh first onee who said mimimi, its unfair, alliance shoud hand it back…
just accepted it, it even better for the bigger picure becausde teh fosaken can fokus rebuild theri county and not having spend ressouerce on a two way front with scralets and worgen gurellias.