I honestly dont see the issue with drums, you played Classic where Engineering was the mandatory Profession to min max, and LW is the TBC one.
NoChanges? They are even making them progressive just like it was in OG TBC so even more TBCesque
Hunter doesn’t see an issue with LW drums. Well… ofc you don’t, but I’ll personally be playing Warlock, and if I want to be in a competitive raiding guild I’ll have only one free slot for professions of my own choice. We’ve seen in Classic how no changes differently affected the game then in Vanilla (world buffs etc.). Gaming culture has changed, and having to have mandatory profession really ain’t fun, and it’s just a bad game design. This just shows how much Blizzard care about their player base and how still (even in 2021) there are people who will give them a pass. So sad 
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How so? LW isnt really mandatory for hunters if you can get asap the off sets that Primalstike fills dunno how this myth of Hunter=LW is still alive.
As a Warlock you will have LW and Tailoring, you can have enchanting on another toon or gathering prof on druid, like almost 70% of TBCC players.
That isnt “gaming culture has changed” it is just the old “if people can min max, they will min max” so you can only find a guild where isnt mandatory using drums, just like in Classic you can find a guild that doesnt ask for mandatory WB, Enginnering and Min Maxing for Speedruns.
Dude, the majority of player base doesn’t want them, and it is a stupid game design. Point is to make the game better not the same, and having drums doesn’t help anyone. If they can add changes such as char boost then they can change stuff that players actually want to be changed.
And no, I can’t have enchanting on another toon if I want to have ring enchanted. So stop pretending that this isn’t an issue. It isn’t an issue for you personally, but for most of us that want to have their 2 profession slot free to use how they want it this is an issue, and it is a big issue.
As I have said, it is just bad game design. Blizzard couldn’t have foreseen the effect the drums will have when they were designing TBC years back, but when something is presented as an issue by the community which is going in the direction of making the game harder by not using some stupid and originally unforeseen game meta then that should be accounted for.
And if they are saying they’re listening to the community I don’t see how they could have done that.
By this Blizzard is forcing a lot of players to do something they don’t want to do, and the game would be better with some kind of a nerf to the drums meta anyways.
And it makes more sense from RP perspective that you can’t use drums all that time, and that drum debuff also makes sense from that perspective.
Btw your argument about finding the guild that doesn’t do drums as compared to examples in Classic is honestly just a bad argument. Because in Classic things with raiding were much easier then they’ll probably be in the TBC classic because we’re getting buffed boss HPs just without all the bugs (see, an example of a positive change) and I’ve already mentioned that I want to be in a competitive raiding guild.
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Cant have it both ways, if you want changes to drums then the boost stays, they are both changes. Difference being drums have a direct impact on the game, the boost doesnt.
Your hypocrisy is amazing.
I have never been a nochanges guy since the classic’s first week after launch.
Bad attempt, no effort, not giving you any credit.
To be honest I no longer care.
The more of these threads I see and read where players want this changed but this removed, I just think sod it, #nochanges.
What is good for you is bad for another and what is bad for you is ok for another. If you cant ever make everyone happy then just leave it and nobody wins (so to speak).
If I was to choose between nochanges and cash shop/microtransaction/paidboosts/paidservices etc. I would choose nochanges every single time.
Nochanges, has some issues, in my opinion, but it is infinitely better than playing a credit card simulator. Can’t even compare, it is a billion time better to not change anything and keep the drums as they are if they don’t make all these other stuff in the game.
But since they expressed openly that they will change drums in blizzcon, I am just trying to at least have a proper fix to drums, not make them even worse than it is.
As a final note: I am still astonished by the fact that Blizzard managed to find a “fix” that makes it even worse and still doesn’t fix the issue. Like I haven’t seen a worse idea in any platform, it is a miracle how they managed to come up with an idea that is this bad and ridicilous when none even suggested it anywhere. They need to be really trying hard.
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Guess what, although I dont fully agree on removing the boost, I’d agree that if nothing were to change it would be a decent move.
But as far as these drums go, imo, if you want that buff then pay the price.
That said you do realise retail isn’t a credit card sim, right?
When you think about it, leveling and the boost are pretty similar to this. Leveling is a problem, so how do we fix it? By implementing an option where players have to pay to not be affected by the problem, and the problem is still there and even worsened because you’d have less people leveling, making dungeons harder to do.
Instead of having Blizzard pay to fix problems, players are paying to not get affected by problems.
I keep seeing you post the same thing in multiple threads and it seems like you don’t understand the problem. Remove the buff, keep it in the game, I don’t really care but if it’s in the game it’s use will be mandatory and with the way it is just now that means everyone is going to have to go LW to get it which is the problem. We want to have a choice of what profession to use not be forced into some crappy meta where almost 100% of the raid has the same profession.
It’s very easily fixed by either removing the buff or changing how it works. If your solution is just to not go LW if we don’t want to then you’re probably the same guy who told us world buffs wouldn’t be a problem in classic because only HC guilds will require them, we saw how that played out in classic and drums will be exactly the same.
Nochanges isn’t an excuse to not make this easy fix because they’re already making changes, at the moment it’s nochanges except if it generates more revenue for Blizzard - paid mounts, char boosts, increasing mats for drums to incentivize more botting, keeping LW as a mandatory profession means you’re more likely to pay for a boost for a gathering alt. There’s literally no good reason for drums not to be changed to improve the game.
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I didn’t say dont go LW, I said if you want the permanent haste buff then pay the price.
And as for changes that was me poking at stick at the anti boost crowd who are now showing their hypocrisy.
Changing drums to either remove LW requirement or other change the game to remove the need for everyone to have LW is a direct change and a QoL change. The very thing anto boosters hate.
Also, has it occurred to anyone that changing the drums issue will just move the problem sideways.
Change drums, ok cool we dont need everyone with LW, oh hey if we now use prof ‘x’ for item ‘y’ instead then we get this bonus. Right everyone not with LW now needs to level this.
The tryhards will find a new meta and new requirements, problem persists.
“if you want the permanent haste buff then pay the price” - I’ll say again, I don’t care about the buff and assume most people on this side of the argument are the same, remove it, keep it in with changes, either would be a huge improvement on what we’re about to get. At the moment we’re not being given the choice which is the major problem.
The other professions give boosts to performance sure, but we already know none of them are as close to being broken as drums so without LW it will be more down to personal choice and making decisions on which ones are best for your class which is far more interesting in most people’s opinion.
Of course there will still be meta without the drums in the game, those metas will exist with or without drums . Every game has a meta no one thinks otherwise, we just don’t want 25 LWs in every raid to be part of it.
Drums didn’t become part of the meta until very late TBC and guess what Blizzard did a couple of patches later? They added the tinnitus debuff because they recognised it was broken and not intended as part of the original design of the item. To say that keeping drums as they were is delivering the authentic TBC experience is incorrect because we didn’t have 25 LWs in SSC in 2007 but that is exactly what we’ll get in 2021.
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What I don’t understand is why Blizzard said they are going to change LW to make it less mandatory, only to then come back and tell us LW should be mandatory for Sunwell.
Why even say they are going to change it? And assuming they remove it entirely prior to Zul Aman, do they think people are going to be happy to have to drop a profession halfway through the expansion to pick up LW?
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Please let drums be usable by every player, not only by leatherworkers. In this way leatherworking will not be compulsory to join raids. This is the best way to enjoy TBC experience without overturn it. Leatherworking should not be mandatory at all…!!!
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Leatherworking should be useful just as the other professions, please consider that if drums will be only usable by leatherworkers this will ruin the entire game experience, just as happened with the use of engineering in classic wow.
Otherwise if they will be a normal consumable as potions the professions’ balance will be preserved.
I’m so confused by Blizzard’s thinking here. They say they don’t want to make LW feel mandatory, but the solution they present isn’t even related to that, they just introduce a new modified item? It will still be as mandatary as before, unless I’m missing something?
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You’re right to be confused and based on what we know at the moment you’re not missing anything. Blizzard acknowledged that the 25 LW meta was lame and said they’d make changes so that wouldn’t happen, and they’ve come out with this change which makes using drums slightly more annoying but doesn’t come close to addressing the underlying issue.
Their latest reasoning for not changing more is that Sunwell is tuned for drums (ignoring all of the other raids that aren’t) and our “fond memories” of drum rotations.
Contradicting themselves completely and the only reason I can think of for not making a change that has overwhelming support in the player base is they’ve realised that keeping the status quo could make them more money through an increase in botting and people paying for boosts for gathering alts.
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No you’re missing nothing.
This is what i can only imagine a game director earning six-figures. Who I expect claims to play the game thinks is a good idea.
I’m lost. Maybe there was a gas leak or something?
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Your logic makes no sense.
You’re fine with a mandatory profession for most raiding environments.
Blizzard has literally said that drums will be needed for sunwell, thus most of your raid group will need to be leatherworking.
You aren’t meant to feel forced to play a profession in a supposed “RPG?”