Blizzard, I’m not going to go in arguements with you, just point out that with this single change you made me NOT wanting to play TBC. No money for you. Comprende?
Revert it and made AN ACTUAL drum fix to battle drums meta.
NO ONE have fond memories about it. Don’t be such a lunatics.
3 Likes
I agree that worldbuffs are a bigger buff, but the fact that you dont lose drums after death will make it mandatory. +5% dmg / healing is a huge buff.
Any guild that wants to perform will have drums and LW mandatory for 20+ people unless tinnitus is added or they are made raidwide. Cause if you wanna perform, every edge is an edge.
Lesser guilds however should not concern themselves with drums, because drums is not what gives you the kill 9/10. doing the mechanics and having the gear is a requirement . Wbuffs covered for those requirements. Drums do not.
As i am in a guild that aims to perform, i’d like tinnitus to be added or drums be made raidwide or not require LW to be used. Why? cause im selfish and i dont want to have LW on my warrior tank, rather have engi + JC or ench , not frickin Lw wich is useless for me outside of drums.
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Honestly, for safer Sapph kill, that’s for sure. Because we try to kill it in smooth way and not to struggle, especially when you just learning the mechanism of the fight. I collect wbuffs (mainly for Sapph + KT) for improving survivability and to ease the work for our healers.
But I see that with Naxx gear the killing of bosses is far easier and smoother, then ofc wbuffs are not necessary, it’s about choice, not feeling that “you must no matter what, becazse without them you won’t progress further”. You log, get Nef and ZG buff, skip DMT. And nothing bad happens, it’s your choice to have (not) DMT. As one example.
Luckily, for example in my guild, the approach to that is not strictly given, we didn’t have to obtain all wbuffs during all phases in classic, it was matter of option. And if we wiped on some boss, thus all wbuffs wiped? No drama, we continued further. This I see as healthy and beneficial approach to all guild members.
Because Naxx was a different level of difficulty (because the current patch was made exclusively for Naxx, not for BWL or AQ40 etc.) and few ppl have some experiences from the past, then wbuffs is ofc the way how to improve the effectiveness. But hey, I’m absolutely okay with that, because I don’t have problem with logging 2 hours before raid, get buffs, logoff. But if there should be the idea to run Naxx without wbuffs, I’m for it and I think we could do it. I try to show you the difference between the approach “I want to have X” and “I must to have X, because it would lead in bad consequences for me (like no inv to raids etc.)”
Not your bro.
The statement: “Its not mandatory” is not an argument, because while its technically correct, practically its meaningless in regards to the situration:
True, technically, you can clear the content without drums, same as you can clear Naxx w.o. worldbuffs.
However: When everyone around you is using WBs, and expects those around them to use WBs, you have to get WBs, otherwise you perform worse than those you play with (best case) or get benched/kicked for someone who may play worse than you, but performs better due to getting buffs.
And these are worldbuffs, which influence only YOUR performance.
Not having Leatherworking impacts the performance OF YOUR ENTIRE GROUP, so the pressure to have that, is actually greater.
Its technically not mandatory, true.
But peer pressure makes it PRACTICALLY mandatory.
This is a fact, and I will no longer discuss a set and proven fact, good day to you.
3 Likes
The thing is, there are guilds who just could NOT kill 4h sapph and KT without full wbuffs, for them, if they want the kill, its mandatory to have them . Also, the difference is so massive, you feel like you are playing two different games , with wbuffs and without wbuffs. There are a LOT of players that if they see you without wbuffs, while they have all of em, they will reprimand you and call you a wheelchair. Peer pressure. You feel like you are bringing the raid down if you dont have Wbuffs. because the difference is SO MASSIVE! its like being 1 and a half tiers ahead of the content in gear. its like having 20+ dps !
Again, LW and drums are not as terribly mandatory as wbuffs because they do not enable to kill stuff, they just make that difference in a minuscule ammount of cases. they only make it faster. a lil bit.
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- guys, I don’t know what about you, but from mine personal journey through TBC years ago… I haven’t used drums even once from Kara to Sunwell, nor guild members from previous guilds and there were not any intentions to push us to have LW + drums. That is my experience, so I think the LW-drum-meta won’t be so hot topic as it looks like now. Though, on the other hand, I’m not happy with idea that drums should remain without any change. I’m 100% for nerfing drums. Not because I would fear about my future as non-LW :D, but apparently to not have something OP, which could lead in that some ppl might be forced to have LW.
fantatstic fix my dudes, everyone who wants to clear content efficiently still neeeds everyone on LW and once the blue recipe comes out I can buy it for 5k gold in ZA gdkp ty
2 Likes
I for one will not play if I have to spend days on end competition farming with 100s of others. Farming should have some level of effort but this will just be a frenzy causing people to leave…then what’s the point of TBC?
I have no issues with changing the game to balance things.
My suggestions/hopes
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Give other professions items that have similar effects as drums. Spread out mat farming over many professions… Tailoring/blacksmithing etc can have their own drum version
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Or remove LW requirement but improve some LW items to attract people to the profession
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Raid wide but debuff it
I am not going through the pain again of insane farming
Yeah that was the experience back then, but nowdays the community is way more toxic and things like this are way more expected. Same with WB:s those were not a thing for most people in the original Vanilla but nowdays they are the “new normal”
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IMHO I think they should have 1 type of drums, make the drums share a debuff with Hero/BL… exhaustion debuff for 10 mins worked well
Lmao, that’s 
There are bots even on this relatively small PvE server.
Do /who strath
/Who Winterspring
/Who Blackrock Depths.
Notice the amount of guildless hunters/rogues in the last two.
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This was before the bluepost
And this is why no-changes is best and why we all left wow in the first place. Blizzard only know how to ruin what they look after which was created a long time ago by people who no longer work for them or have any creative input into it.
No changes to the greatness that was created by the old devs is the only way to ensure modern Blizz don’t ruin everything! History shows they have already done once over with the abomination that is “Retail”.
People try and refute the “slippery slope claim” by arguing that its a logical fallacy - that statement is only true when its applied to an unknown as an attempt to be used as a counter argument based on speculation.
When its used to describe a historical event of which has happened and can be analysed and facts observed then it is not being misused as a logical fallacy and instead is being used as a model to explain the reality of a situation.
We all know what happens to Vanilla wow with 14 years of Blizzz tinkering and we all know that it is a slippery slope as we can see the start (vanilla) and the place it eventually becomes (retail) and can can see the slope of decent from one to the other and the changes that greased that slop and made it the slippery slope that is it.
The future of wow isn’t unknown and so the slippery slope isn’t being speculated and so isn’t a logical fallacy - its a reality that we all know comes to be true if these changes are slowly implemented. These changes are what we hate about retail and why we all wanted classic at all!
You’re talking rubbish now. Completely downplaying it. You literally end raids early so you can come back to Sapph with WBs. For you, to clear current content, WBs aren’t “to make it smoother”, they’re mandatory to get the kill.
And I’m not saying you’re a bad player in a bad guild, you’re clearing naxx = clearly competent. Plenty are in the same boat. All I’m saying is: Worldbuffs are mandatory for all levels in naxx. Hardcore guilds need them for clear speeds, casual guilds simply do need them to clear the instance. They’re mandatory. Stop saying otherwise.
You don’t think a raid wide 5% dmg + healing buff could be the difference between progression and wipes?
Lol, you don’t actually think you’ll earn much gold off it?
The competition will be INSANE for it.
Practically camped 24/7 for it with dozens of people.
There are no bots whatsoever on Hydraxian Waterlords. Why would there be? The population is too low, there aren’t many raiders, and the economy is dirt cheap with items that sell for hundreds of gold on megaservers selling for single figures on here.
Probably talking about the old mats you need for leveling which you can stack up on already.
Nobody is camping any of the main leather farming zones right now. I have them all to myself.
Even if that changes in TBC you’re forgetting Caverns of Time Black Morass. An instance stuffed with non-elite beast mobs, alll of whom drop Knothide Leather.
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