Yes but leather is worthless now, even black lotus is less than half of the price compared to a month ago.
Oh wait, you’re talking about leveling leather? 
Knothide leather in the world however would be a massive… yeah lol.
True, probably would increase heavily in price once TBC hits.
Might be an idea for myself to level a skinner I guess? lmao.
Yes, my point is that come TBC, a lot of min/maxers are going to be forced to drop their professions and take up LW, learning it from scratch.
So they’re going to need leather, and lots of it.
They probably won’t be farming the leather themselves as it takes too long, so they’ll buy it. They’re going to need a tonne of Light/Medium/Heavy/Thick and Rugged Leather first so that they can boost their profession to 300, ready for TBC.
So, consequently anyone with skinning potentially stands to make a fortune if they start stockpiling their leather and then flood the AH with it on launch day.
This is the exactly sentence, which I can’t agree with you at all. Under this sentence lies the understanding of the role of wbuffs. They are not mandatory for all levels of Naxx, because then logically, you would have to call raid out everytime you wipe. That’s not true, evidently, because even after wipe, tell me: are you passing the rest of progress in Naxx until you get new wbuffs? I suppose your answer is would be “no”. Another thing (if you want to hold at Sapph), there are 3 categories of players who would consider wbuffs for mandatory (read, absolutely necessary):
- casual players, who have no experience with Sapph
- hardcore players, who do speedrunning (killing Sapph and looting her is not their aim in general)
- players, who miss most of FR gear (so they need the “power boost” as much as possible)
That’s for Sapph. If you are well geared, have consumables but you miss any single wbuff - are you convinced that it is impossible to kill Sapph? And then KT? If answer is “no”, then “wbuffs are mandatory” is just not valid.
The difference is “I want wbuff because I want to improve my DPS, survivability etc.” vs. “I must have wbuff, because otherwise guild leader would kick me from the raid, because he thinks wbuffs are mandatory”. Bosses in Naxx are killable with or without wbuffs, surely it depends on the level of your personal experience with the fights, on your gear and gear of others, used consumables, bla bla bla. But I bet that designers originally didn’t count with that players should enter Naxx with all possible wbuffs to be able to kill the Naxx bosses.
So, we are returning to drums: no, they won’t be mandatory during the whole TBC. It will be the matter of your choice and choice of your guild officers. If they agree all 25 ppl should have LW with drums and everybody agrees with that, cool, why not. If they admit it is not necessary, nothing bad happens, you still be able to do raids in TBC.
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I literally just made a lvl 1 on Hydraxian Waterlords Alliance and did /who Blackrock Depths.
And hey, what do you know, there’s 3 lvl 60 unguilded rogues who are obvious bots and a 5man team of mostly 1 guild of different classes running the dungeon legit.
There’s also 1-2 unguilded hunters in Azshara, Winterspring and Eastern Plaguelands. Zones that the bot often herb/mine in.
No bots whatsoever huh?
Sure, you got LESS bots on there, but you got bots on there still, even on your TINY server.
Imagine how bad it is on the actually big ones.
Just because they’re unguilded doesn’t automatically make them bots, but OK maybe I was wrong and there are bots.
I’ve done /who brd plenty of times though, as I was curious about these Rogue bots, but I’ve never seen any until you made that screenshot.
@Pulsifer: I add something to my comment above: the original issue was, and I was responding on that, that some people said “oh man, I must be LW in TBC in any case, because of drums.” You don’t have to, that’s my response. Be cooker and tailor, whatever.
It’s about ppl you want to play with, or the main philosophy of guild you choose. Some guilds are really hardcore, some are semi-hardcore, some just casual and social. The choice is wide and certainly, all recruiting guilds describe who they are, what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve the certain things. So you have all informations you need to know, and if you don’t want to be LW? Find guild which miss such requirement, problem solved!
As I said: I’m not defending drums, because in my opinion, they are badly designated and can crush the balance. I mean, it CAN lead some ppl to strong belief it is something you cannot play without. Drums try to looks like you cannot play without them, even if it is just illusion. So, I’m for drum nerf, and I think…hold on…that Blizz will change that. They test our response on such change (do they like it or not?) rather than they would really want to implement such change. That’s mine opinion - they test our response. Negative response = drums will change, dot.
You’ve totally missed my point. By “all levels” I don’t mean every boss in naxx needs worldbuffs, i’m saying all levels of players (casual to hardcore) that are clearing Naxx require worldbuffs in their raids.
To the quote, why has your guild never killed Sapph without worldbuffs? Why do you end the raid when you get to Sapph and come back another day with worldbuffs if you could just kill Sapph without? You’ve ignored this question several times.
To be clear: Not every boss in naxx needs worldbuffs, but for different reasons every guild clearing naxx requires worldbuffs. (hardcore for speedruns, casual to kill the bosses).
Yeah because it’s so typical for players to be unguilded rogues who sit in BRD all day. Try adding a few to your friendlist and see how much time they sit in there. Try whispering some of them.
But think of it like this, they’re there even on your tiny server, so imagine how big the bot problem is on the actually played servers.
You also said Drums arent mandatory in the same way WBs arent mandatory. My point is: WB are mandatory if you want to clear naxx.
This all says why there would be bots. If your economy is low then buying gold (on a player by player basis) is cheaper + more attractive.
Lets say it costs $1 for 10g (no idea what prices really are, I dont buy gold). On a big server where black lotus is 100g then it costs $10 to buy a black lotus, on your server if BL is 30g it costs $3 to buy a BL.
Yes, there’s less of a market, so you have less bots (supply and demand) - but bots make as much gold on your server per hour online (where its worth more) than they do on the big servers, and your players dont need to buy as much gold for the things they need.
Well, in that case, that’s just one more reason to oppose paid boosts.
Players forcing themselves into doing dumb things is just too funny. You create the meta yourself and then complain about it. “Worldbuff meta” and soon “drum meta”
Must be painful to be a meta sheep against your own will xD
lets get one thing straight: 5% haste DOES NOT EQUAL 5% DAMAGE. for tanks, 5% haste is basically nothing, wich means no real increase in aggro, wich means your dps will still have to stop most likely. so no, 5% haste is not that huge of an upgrade. as i said, and im sure of it 100%, its gonna make the difference between wipe and kill in those 3% boss hp wipes maybe. otherwise ,its either not gonna make you get the kill or it wasnt needed aniway for the kill.
Yeah, you deserve the answer ofc. We do wbuffs on Sapph, because we want to have clean kill on Sapph. That’s quite evident. Sometimes we wiped on Sapph, then we have get some wbuffs, returned back. It was mainly in several first encounters. Currently, the execution of Sapph is not issue for us (and KT), we all have learned the fight, wbuffs help to our aim, so it is 1-hit KO. Personally, I think that if we decide to kill Sapph without wbuffs, we would kill her anyway. And KT after her. But some people like to collect wbuffs, or they want to have them, and that’s I wanted to point out the whole conversation: it’s mainly the matter of choice. Mandatory or not, some ppl will collect them, some just few of them, some none of them. Naxx and mainly Sapph with KT, is a bit special event, because the level of difficulty is higher than every raid before. Because of difficulty, all raiders naturally agreed that it is suitable to come into the raid buffed and beat Naxx more easily. But I think you still miss the difference in philosophy, what I try to explain to you: you must vs. you have the choice, both ways will still lead to beating Naxx.
Also i agree. All the players should band togheter and negatively vote the change to drums, pushing towards removal or tinnitus or whatever doesnt force to be LW.
All the streamers, all the raiders, everyone with beta, just react negatively to it. enough complain always works in this game
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But it is an increase nonetheless, that isn’t deleted by wiping and can be activated by something that isn’t time-gated like Worldbuffs.
And because of that, it will be, in practice, mandatory.
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An edge is an Edge, but if it is really really obnoxius to use , only the most hardcore of hardcore will make use of it. and by obnoxius i mean like insane crafting costs or i dont know ridicolously low drop chance of recipe from one mob in the entirety of outlands that respawns every 38 hours or something in a random part of the world . Just making it up ofcourse.
So just report negatively about it. streamers and players alike. just SAY you dont like it. But not simply on the forums, report it while beta testing every damn day!
Fair enough, I was basing it on casters (if you cast 5% faster it’s a 5% dmg increase).
But still, look at the Drums of Restoration. Someone posted this to the priest discord today, paraphrased: Drums of Restoration = 125mp5 (if all 5 in your group use it). Max level mana pots = 100mp5. Would you be happy raiding with healers who dont use mana potions? Well Drums > mana potions, and you can use both ofc.
With Primal Mooncloth + Drums of Restoration, as a holy priest*, I can’t seriously take anything other than Tailoring + Leatherworking.
[edit] * make that: Any healer
Let the hardcore have something so they can be more hardcore. It’s absolutely not mandatory to use every little advantage that exists in the game to clear content. Stuff like this is only in the game for some hardcore players so they can say stuff like “höhö look how fast we can clear this raid olol we so good at this game pls watch our stream”
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