Also, keep in mind, I have no stake in this at all. I can play my character and I use alot of these optimal things to make my life easier, but I’m still against it, because I should not be needing any of these, and it’s too big of a barrier for new players to get into end game, because the devs don’t know what mechanics are intuitively visible and which aren’t without addons, when everyone except newbies uses them.
Also, if you see a mechanic, and your addon tells you what to do, trust me, your learning curve is way faster artificially, and you would most likely not be able to learn the raids as fast as you do with them
You mean Hekili? I would advise not to use it. And if someone uses it then at best for like a week or two to get some crutch during the original learning phase but then ditch it entirely. Its prone to too many mistakes during an encounter.
Or you mean DBM? I mean you can use it. But you will just ignore it at some point.
They still wouldnt know. We are flaming the visibility for years. And they rarely if ever change them. You give them WAY too much credit here.
Lets take Sarkareth. It took them 6 weeks to change the swirlies in P3 (and thats fast for Blizzards standards)
Im pretty sure I used bartender. And I remember my first “selfmade UI”. Oh boy. If I would use that exact UI nowadays I would want to end myself
Tbf, I went off topic and I mean all addons in general now But yeah, if Hekili has so many downloads it is very problematic, because that makes it impossible for blizzard to know what class rotations are well designed, when people follow a script
No, they rely on data, not on some random players rambling. If everyone uses addons, their data is useless, so ofc this makes it way harder for them to fix anything. Else, they could just see statistics of how many people fail a mechanic and then fix it, but if so many people use addons, their failure depends partially on what they see with the addon
I mean some addons are more a response to Blizzard absolute horrendous base UI. Their Edit Mode is trash. Their buff/debuff visibility is trash.
Depends how they count it. I have it installed too. Since years. Its disabled but it gets updated every time I click update and that may get taken into the download counter too.
I mean we are already following a “script”. We know our rotation because of the sims. And they get plenty of feedback from the class discords. Also a reason why Fire gets a rework and so does Assa (or at least exsanguinate)
It gets flamed by all tiers of raiders. From Normal all the way to world first.
I mean Blizzard was never prone to admit mistakes. They get flamed every bloody tier with their Ability has Colour X and the ground also colour X and they still dont change it.
An addon wont prevent you from not seeing the swirlies on Sarkareth.
It will only make a BIIIIIP and alarm noise until you move out People need to stop acting tough and just accept that a lot of them would never be able to play the same way without addons. Might be partially an ego issue tbh, but it would also result into content being way easier most likely in general. Not sure if I’m a fan of that, but if it’s required for enough ppl to clear something, then it is
Ye thats not working. The swirly is a one time tick and applies 5 debuffs of oblivion (at 10 you go downstairs. At mythic you leave a oneshot puddle and you have to go downstairs at certain points in the encounter) and you dont get a warning while standing in the swirlie.
I am saying that Blizzard gets plenty of flame from all levels of raiders and they still fail to address it.
Another point is that they very often add swirlies who have a bigger hitbox than what is visible. While you can work around that its still bloody annoying.
Well, if you are already in mythic, you know all mechanics probably already. I’m more talking about the learning curve from a new player, who learns how to raid normal and heroic from 0, but I do think heroic raiding is easy compared to m+. M+ has a very big entry barrier. I personally would not be able to do mechanics in some dungeons without an addon at +18, because I wouldn’t see them. I even sometimes don’t see them with an addon. For example in Neltharus mobs cast a frontal sometimes, and I just don’t see it, even though I know it’s happening
I would agree 15+ years ago.
But the rotations have changed a lot from infinite frostbolt and not standing in the fire.
Perhaps I am getting “old”, but I cannot just learn to do well every single spec of every single class on my own any more. At least not on the level people are expected to play in any content that is not brain dead.
Sure, someone who mains one class their entire wow career would need no assistance.
An alt-aholic who rarely stays on the same class each season however…
+18 is not entry level. +18 is the level i am currently timing while being almost an M+ veteran. What is wrong with starting on +2? That is what i am doing on my alts. I am on my fire mage now good enough for +5 and my brewmaster +9.
When you’re in melee with all the mobs stacked on you and the tank it can be hard to see. I have little wigs give me an additional big warning on screen to see when I am targeted.
To a basic extend sure. But the issue remains (or remained since they fixed it this week). You had swirlies on the ground that you could barely see and no addon was able to tell you about it. They beeped at you AFTER you got hit. Which is already a no go on mythic.
You arent allowed to get hit at all and if you got hit then you better get downstairs asap from a safe position, return and get to a proper amount of stacks that allows you to get downstairs at the same time as everybody else or else you are going to die horribly or even worse cause rocks to spawn (of which you only get 1 on mythic if done correctly).
Heroic Raiding is significantly harder than a +2. Its however way easier than a +20 (imo) aside from maybe Sarkareth.
I mean thats just comes down to experience. Do it often enough and you can do it in your sleep.
Welcome to Melee. Its mainly an issue during big pulls with mobs that turn to a random player instead of doing it on the tank.
I mean as a Melee youre well advised to always be in max effective melee range.
I know as a main holy paladin
I am also calling the names out of the targets on voice, so people do not have to pay attention. I play with only 1 ranged in my group (demolock). I get a target-icon on my partyframes
Also, I’m not fully “against addons” themselves. (Might have said that tho). I just think that blizzard is not capable of making meaningful UI changes and making mechanics visibly clear without a brute force approach, where everyone suffers and complains, and where they can see the data very clearly. It sounds weird when I put it like this, but I also wouldn’t know how they could know otherwise, because weakauras, etc are just broken and way too strong.
Most class playstyles are also way too complex and require too many macros to be playable and too many weakauras
I mean they are changing visibility. They just do it too slowly. CoS visibility change took ages. Sarkareth took ages. Etc. And they do UI changes. But they always feel halfbutted. Like as I said their edit mode is horrible. They could improve it so much but they did like half of the work and called it a day.
If a weakaura is too strong Blizzard breaks it entirely (dreadlords weakaura was disabled on Blizzards end)
My interrupt requires me to be within 8 yards so I’m usually in with everything. They have vastly improved the range of all my other spells/attacks though.
I mean I have to go back into 5 yards every time I cast secret technique because the afterimages dont benefit from Acrobatic Strikes but even with 5 yards unless I hug with all the melees on the same spot the issue like the arrow one in VP doesnt exist. However many melees just love to basically stand inside the butt of the mob.
Not just in dungeons but raids as well.
And that some people have questionable brain activity was hard confirmed for me when I completely lost my poop during neltharion because people didnt understand the command “dont bloody cleave during MC” and their response was “but but I only do 10k”. On a Boss where DPS doesnt matter whatsoever. Not anymore.
What’s unintuitive about this interaction? Bloodthirst is, correct me if I’m wrong, a button you don’t typically want to press and only comes into the optimal rotation because of the set bonus. Therefor “press it as few times as possible whilst still getting maximum benefit from the stacks” seems pretty intuitive to me from reading the set bonus.
(and thats fast for Blizzards standards)
But yeah, if Hekili has so many downloads it is very problematic, because that makes it impossible for blizzard to know what class rotations are well designed, when people follow a script
People need to stop acting tough and just accept that a lot of them would never be able to play the same way without addons. Might be partially an ego issue tbh, but it would also result into content being way easier most likely in general. Not sure if I’m a fan of that, but if it’s required for enough ppl to clear something, then it is
