How come in-character racism is ok but not in-character homophobia then (as was the original complaint)?
It’s not too difficult to assume that if denizens of Azeroth have trouble co-existing with other intelligent species then some of those cultures also probably have issue co-existing with different sexualities. Sure, using the word gay as an insult is something imported from the real world thus ill-fitting, but being afraid/intolerant/suspicious of ‘the other’ (including homosexuals and others) is quite the shoe-in with the general theme of Warcraft.
Again, orcs aren’t real. Elves aren’t real. The fantasy races of Warcraft do not exist, so to commit some crime against them is not inherently evocative of real-world events.
This would be a valid point, if Danuser hadn’t said that Azeroth is generally more of an accepting place than Earth is. Homophobia in the modern day can largely be attributed to organized religion with homophobic doctrines - which are not present in the world of Azeroth, Draenor, nor anywhere else we have seen in-game - and false notions of one’s sexuality defining one’s masculinity. A gay orc couple would not be seen as less masculine or as lesser people for their sexuality. Blood and honour run deeper than one’s biology.
But if sexualities and gender identities are just another mundane fact about a person, much as eye colour or hair colour is, then there is no ‘other’. There is no ‘intolerance’. You have a society that shrugs it’s shoulders in utter indifference, essentially equality. Gay people cannot be the other if they are never presented as a stigmatized or cast-out people within Azeroth.
Which again goes back to my point way back in the first homophobia thread. This game can be a means of escapism from some of the cruelty the real world can offer out in spades. It can be a way for those who are uncertain of their orientation or unable to express their sexuality in a safe, judgment-free environment.
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Because people who create the story said the issue doesn´t exist.
Fantasy operates under its own laws. Sure, often these laws are based on real life, but that doesn´t mean real life scenarios are automatically aplicable in fantasy setting. Is it so far-fetched to imagine that setting which has practically immortal space goats, proof of existence of soul and where organization that heavily borrowed from looks of Catholic church doesn´t worship a god but rather cosmic energy, that in this setting people would be accepting of sexual minorities?
Also, using your logic, humans should be racist against black people (or any people who look different from them) because that´s how it works in real life. Racism is everywhere, it´s not just western issue that was caused by slave trade from Africa.
Yet RPing racism (instead of specieism) is seen as bad roleplay among any decent RP community, precisely because the people in charge of this story told us it doesn´t exist in the setting.
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Concern trolling is so boring
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After 2 minutes of googling to check this, it is understandable honestly. If you disagree with the decision, blame the people who are unironically idolizing the crusade as some righteous fight etc etc.
We are also in a time, sadly, where it is popular among less intelligent individuals to openly hate on anything connected to Islam, which has a very negative history with this in particular. So there is your reason for it. Blame the actual racists who are unironically talking about how great it was/banking votes on it and hatred against an entire religious belief and population, not the company.
Only in very few cases though are things shown in an explicit, non-cartoony detail. Violence also doesn’t automatically mean insults and slurs and cursewords, nor does maturity have anything to do about it. It’s a pitfall teenagers usually fall into, that anything adult means a barrage of cursewords cus that’s adult stuff right.
I’ve never been a fan of cursewords or harsher language at all, and it’s never been a thing WoW has been into either aside from a few random situations, such as the one with Garrosh that was only there for shock value.
The word is also one that has a specific derogatory history and meaning towards women and it’s not something that has a place in Warcraft, as already decided by themselves with it’s removal.
You need to seriously work on how you phrase yourself, and with your other statements it is again clear that you aren’t genuine. If you are, truly, again, work on how you express yourself.
This has been discussed already over both threads and reached a good conclusion with explanations of the reasoning. The short answer is, specieism that makes sense in the lore and story works within the setting, but starting to use racism akin to IRL(hating on black humans or going around chanting Deus vult and lynchings) is to be avoided.
It has been openly said it doesn’t exist in WoW, its also a different universe all-together and most importantly, it’s not allowed by the chat rules.
That said and probably some time wasted(but nice for the others to read) I’m just going to put you on the ignore for the time being, since as said, your disingenuous trolling is as clear as day, and if I am absolutely wrong you again really need to work on your own presentation.
Both of which I at the point don’t want to bother with anymore for the time being.
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https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/diversity-and-dnd
For the record here’s the thing from WotC that the very concerned poster was talking about.
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Ah okay, so you’re a transphobe too. Right, got it. Thanks for playing.
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I’ve got to say I was expecting this thread to make me just decide to not come back to wow but actually I’m fairly impressed that the majority of posters are being pretty decent people.
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It’s definitely encouraging to see 90% of people in these threads gang up on intolerance.
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" We present orcs and drow in a new light in two of our most recent books, Eberron: Rising from the Last War and Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount . In those books, orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples."
I don’t know why but the underlying apology for the culturally inappropriate portrayal of orcs is funny to me.
Imagine thinking J. K. Rowling knows anything about biology.
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wizards just laid one out on the floor until indoor plumbing was invented
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The prior paragraph explains why.
Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.
Gnolls didn’t get the “not-always-evil” treatment because a) WotC refuse to accept that their 5e FR retcon/new lore for gnolls was bad and b) because they presumably didn’t get the same questionable descriptors that orcs and drow have had.
Anyway gnolls shouldn’t be always evil and it’s a waste of their late 3.5/4e developments to do so.
stan gnolls
When the most recognisably tribal race in D&D is universally depicted as chaotic evil savages (and, unless I’m mistaken, sexual violence has been an integral part of their in-world culture) then you’ve long-since crossed the line into an issue.
Warcraft orcs shuffling awkwardly.
This is something that I think WoW should probably consider as well, and I think it was highlighted in BfA more than every other expansion. The blood trolls weren’t presented very well, and having them be a tribal people who all seem to be born evil isn’t the best look.
I also think the way trolls in general are written is a bit sketchy. I don’t think it’s intentional, but if you remember that when ogres and peons are written to sound stupid, and then Zandalari in particular also use some of the same terms (“da” for example), it doesn’t look great - if you were transcribing what a real-life person with an African (I’m sadly too ignorant myself to know what specific kind of accent they were going for with Zandalari) or Jamaican accent, you wouldn’t do so the way Blizzard does.
It’s not intentional, I know, and maybe I’m making too big a deal of it, but it doesn’t really feel right to me.
That and I think it’s just a bit cringe to see things transcribed like that anyway. Calling the SL dungeon “De Other Side” instead of “The Other Side” makes me cringe.
wow orcs (and trolls) are weird on account of there being some very notable attempts to portray them in a decent well rounded way but then blizzard sometimes just decide they’re all terrible
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“Oh, they’re good! Wait, no, they’re bad again.”
its frustrating because they have got it right in the past
True, I feel like many of the WoW writers just fundamentally cannot grasp the somewhat alien concept of orcish honor, which is why we end up with Saurfang’s modern portrayal and, well, words like “ur’gora”.
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