Homophobia in rp needs to cease

[Ïrelia-argent-dawn]

@Coalburnt-argent-dawn

Then you agree the player saying the latter deserves to be banned.

If they are using such words to harrass and belittle somebody as a person and not a character, yes. They should be.

@Nerathion-argent-dawn

and i also said offensive

Then a lot of people need to be banned.

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

What you call racism, I call hatred towards the opposing faction(s) so it’s not the same thing you are refering to, and it does exist in lore, otherwise, it wouldn’t be warcraft.

Yes, but racism is racism. And it is against the terms of service.

This is my issue. The terms of service doesn’t differentiate between roleplay and other players using the game.

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

I’m incline to call you a troll to, since you been going on this back and forth instead of stepping away after your suspension, I think you are smart enough to realize it will get you nowhere so why are even cling into this dumb back and forth?

I’m getting nowhere because nobody in this thread actually wants to listen to other points of view. They just want to villainize them and put people down. Or outright bully them and accuse them of awful things.

The only reason I keep going is that I am not affected by any of this childish behaviour and can persevere.

@Rainwatcher-argent-dawn

If they use real world racial slurs then yes. There is a reason in-universe insults like ‘greenskin’ or ‘round-ear’ are ok, but saying the n-word isn’t. There is no in-universe slur for hating the gays. Try again.

See above.

@Obahar-argent-dawn

The closest we get is allegory, and with that it gets muddy. Are there racist conflicts in the real world that could be equated to the differences of Warcraft species? Very possibly, and given just how many wars us humans love to get into, I’m going to even say “probably”. But even then, is it Blizzard’s intentions to mirror IRL conflicts through Warcraft’s different species? There’s no solid answer but I’d give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt.

So in terms of Warcraft’s species-isms, a “racist” (character who dislikes other species) should not be a bannable offense, no.

As for inter-species conflicts, again, no. The basis for all of those is based on affiliations, loyalties, and differences of ideologies more than differences of culture and skin colour.

My main issue is the rules are unclear.
Yes, people using OOC racial slurs invite a ban. They are (if they know what they are doing) choosing not to engage with the expected standards of RP and thus should be treated as OOC inflammatory comments.

But lets go back to this:

Communication
When participating in communication of any kind (chat, voice communication, group finder), you are responsible for how you express yourself. You may not use language that could be offensive or vulgar to others.

My Death Knight will never conform to this rule. She is evil and wants to make people suffer. So if these rules apply to IC and OOC, my death knight is a bannable offence. And I am not talking about social expectations. I mean the actual technicalities of the official rules.

Yes, it is still IC. But my DK is offensive and hateful. If these terms apply IC, I should be banned. If they don’t apply IC, then nothing you say IC will get you banned if it is purely IC.

@Obahar-argent-dawn

Most people know to keep IC and OOC different on this particular one, barring insults that really just don’t belong in Warcraft’s settings (IRL slurs, and demonstrations of IRL stigmas inparticularly.)

Typically I agree yes, see above.

[Amdusias-mirage-raceway]

@Soulburn-argent-dawn

That’s embarrassing, I get why you post on a vanilla character.

Once more, a nothingburger statement.

[Sindrí-argent-dawn (Sindrí)]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

My main issue is the rules are unclear.

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

Yes, people using OOC racial slurs invite a ban

Replace racial with discriminatory and thats about it.

[Zagkush-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

racism is racism.

Thanks for desmissing what I just said, you really are a troll then.

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

The only reason I keep going is that I am not affected by any of this childish behaviour and can persevere.

Were you are contradicting yourself, my advice, leave while you can, or keep being “harrased” your choice really.

[Nerathion-argent-dawn (Nerathion)]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

Yes, but racism is racism. And it is against the terms of service.

Correct! If you are racist (eg throwing n-words in /say, even in RP) you’re breaking the terms of service and should be banned!

Differs from hatred towards different species (eg humans hating orcs) which the universe is built upon.

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

I’m getting nowhere because nobody in this thread actually wants to listen to other points of view. They just want to villainize them and put people down. Or outright bully them and accuse them of awful things.

What other points of view? That homophobia should be accepted? Indeed, why does nobody want to listen to a homophobe!

[Soulburn-argent-dawn]

You two have been arguging for the right to RP characters who hates gays for 8+ hours. Grasping at straws the whole time, I’d say that’s embarrassing.

[Carees-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

Yes, but racism is racism.

The ToS rules exist to prevent certain specific harmful activities from taking place.
The rule regarding racism exists to prevent bigotries against the ‘races’ (as defined in the real world) which exist rather than speciesism against fictional ‘races’.

Try RPing a character who is racist as we understand it against a Human with a darker skin tone. See how that goes for you.

[Ïrelia-argent-dawn]

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

Were you are contradicting yourself, my advice, leave while you can, or keep being “harrased” your choice really.

Is that a threat?

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

Thanks for desmissing what I just said, you really are a troll then.

I didn’t write a reply that long just to troll you.

@Nerathion-argent-dawn

Differs from hatred towards different species (eg humans hating orcs) which the universe is built upon.

And it is still racism.

@Nerathion-argent-dawn

why does nobody want to listen to a homophobe!

Are you still pushing this? Clearly, you truly are malicious. Or just vapid.

@Carees-argent-dawn

The ToS rules exist to prevent certain specific harmful activities from taking place.
The rule regarding racism exists to prevent bigotries against the ‘races’ (as defined in the real world) which exist rather than speciesism against fictional ‘races’.

Yes and if the ToS applies to what people IC, people should be banned for being racists IC.

That is a consistent application of the rules as they are written.

[Obahar-argent-dawn]

@Amdusias-mirage-raceway

@Rainwatcher-argent-dawn

The quotes you get from spam clicking a character are not canon.

Oh that’s a debate for another thread, because anything that is in the universe is technically canon is it not?

Somehow I don’t think that a mysterious force pestering the leader of Gilneas until he confesses vocally that he is in fact a, and I quote, a “good boy” is something that most people are going to consider canon.

[Carees-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

Yes and if the ToS applies to what people IC, people should be banned for being racists IC.

If people RP as being racist as per the real world definition I’m willing to bet they’ll be banned for it. Hell they’ll get a ban for using a very specific word one time in that RP.

[Amdusias-mirage-raceway]

@Soulburn-argent-dawn

You two have been arguging for the right to RP characters who hates gays for 8+ hours. Grasping at straws the whole time, I’d say that’s embarrassing.

And you have spent the same length of time accusing us of being homophobic. Could have at least accused me of something at least partially true.

[Soulburn-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

And it is still racism.

I can’t honestly believe you’re taking the IRL issue of racism and making an equivalency of orcs hating humans. 8 hours later.
Lets us remember, all in the goal to justify RPing a character who hates gays.

And you still go around asking “Why do people think I’m homophobic?”

[Obahar-argent-dawn]

@Amdusias-mirage-raceway

And you have spent the same length of time accusing us of being homophobic. Could have at least accused me of something at least partially true.

I’m not going to call you homophobic. But again I question why you feel it necessary to stand by something that could be frustrating or upsetting to the LGBTQ+ community as a whole, and do so for such a long time at that.

[Ïrelia-argent-dawn]

@Carees-argent-dawn

If people RP as being racist as per the real world definition I’m willing to bet they’ll be banned for it. Hell they’ll get a ban for using a very specific word one time in that RP.

There is no other definition of racism. If you are racist IC, your character is a racist. And thus, breaches the ToS.

@Soulburn-argent-dawn

And you still go around asking “Why do people think I’m homophobic?”

You have said this probably twenty times now and it is still not true.

@Obahar-argent-dawn

I’m not going to call you homophobic. But again I question why you feel it necessary to stand by something that could be frustrating or upsetting to the LGBTQ+ community as a whole, and do so for such a long time at that.

As I have already said. I am a programmer. I am anal when it comes to rules and how they are applied. Either they are applied fairly and sensibly or there is no point in having rules at all.

[Nerathion-argent-dawn (Nerathion)]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

Are you still pushing this? Clearly, you truly are malicious. Or just vapid.

No, I’m asking why would anyone want to listen to a homophobe (especially since you did not bring any other ((new) points of view to discussion), but if you felt attacked then maybe you were the homophobe too?

I just asked why’d people want to listen to a homophobe in general, at least - when it comes to homophobia.

Also, I’m surprised by how well the ignore system works on the forums, I ignored the undead to get the screenshot and it’s been hiding posts better than discord to the point where I’m confused where he’s written something.

Heartily recommending to ignore the trolls! Takes a few clumsy clicks, is all.

[Zagkush-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

Is that a threat?

Not really, but from what I keep seing here, why are you even sticking around at this point? Do you secretly like this sort of attention?

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

I didn’t write a reply that long just to troll you.

You dismissed what I posted just to suit yourself, I call that trolling, long paragraph or not.

[Soulburn-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

You have said this probably twenty times now and it is still not true.

Because you don’t get it after twenty times, you are so incredibly stupid.

[Avantheria-argent-dawn]

There is a difference between conforming to the narrative / setting of the game to be creative with insults, and using modern day slang and insults which are often simply not fitting, on top of being inappropriate.

[Sindrí-argent-dawn (Sindrí)]

@Soulburn-argent-dawn

the goal to justify RPing a character who hates gays.

On the other side…
Let them, they’ll get their bums vilified real fast, have fun being hated ic and when they take it ooc… well they keep spouting keep IC and OOC apart.

[Obahar-argent-dawn]

@Ïrelia-argent-dawn

As I have already said. I am a programmer. I am anal when it comes to rules and how they are applied. Either they are applied fairly and sensibly or there is no point in having rules at all.

In the case of programming then yes, 100%, that is absolutely true. Every line of code should serve a function, every variable should be accounted for, all of that stuff.

But unless you’re a Mark Zuckerberg type trying to really squish the human experience down into an algorithm, then that level of objectivity just isn’t applicable in cases like this. Some things do need to be done on a case by case basis and no amount of consideration or coverage could ever account for the vastly different behaviours of different people.