How LFG, ilevel and making the game more accessible is ruining the game

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

@Rezista-ravencrest

LFR is for the most part a failiure, despite of how many people “raid” the current content through it, because it is not current content, it is a tourist mode of it. It has no barrier of entry, no skill requierment, hell, you don’t even have to play the game in order to beat the last boss.

You keep ignoring my 7 determination stacks on ghuun. But you probably also did not try KJ of Gul’dan in the first month of LFR. There were outrages on the forum how undoable they were

[Rezista-ravencrest (Rezista)]

I keep ignoring it, because Determination buff is a joke. It shouldn’t exist. If a group can’t kill a boss - git gud and I’m pretty sure I have tried harder bosses than LFR Guldan without it and killed them.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

I already had curves when I did lfr ghuun. I needed it for the voljin questline (only reason I queued actually ). What about that git gut…

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

@Psjohly-argent-dawn

You keep ignoring my 7 determination stacks on ghuun. But you probably also did not try KJ of Gul’dan in the first month of LFR. There were outrages on the forum how undoable they were

Well, G’huun is a hard 1 since 2 ppl in the 25 man group need to know what to do, so wipes in LFR are very common. LFR is hard because most of the ppl have no idea whats happening and don’t know how to play the game and will never learn since all they do is LFR for raid content. If there is ppl that know what to do they don’t care cause it doesn’t challenge them.

[Rezista-ravencrest (Rezista)]

That doesn’t concern you in perticular, but the 25 people who wipe in LFR. This is what I mean as “no barrier of entry” - you can be the absolutely worst player in the game and kill the last boss, this is not healthy for a multiplayer game that should reward you for your skill, when it comes to a boss fight.
LFR would have been a good addition to raiding, if it was more like the flex mode of SoO (currently the normal version of the raids) - no que system, same mechanics as norma/heroic, but easier. A place where you can learn the fights and get rewarded with a lower quality gear of the same type.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

You mean, that is what is making it a raid?

[Bigkeg-twisting-nether (Bigkeg)]

@Psjohly-argent-dawn

But you probably also did not try KJ of Gul’dan in the first month of LFR. There were outrages on the forum how undoable they were

I still remember having higher HPS on LFR KJ than on guild HC kill of him Meteors landing left and right, complete annihilation

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

@Rékthal-frostwhisper

Are you implementing that the game is called master piece cause you can use cheat engine to make it easier? I personally don’t believe that’s the case, it’s a quality game developed by best developers in the gaming industry, and these devs don’t care if ppl don’t have time to learn the game to get through it.

I don’t play it, however 8 million hits for the ability to hack it would suggest that there is some demand by people to do so. You can’t compare offline games to WOW.

The only game really to go on is Wildstar, and its quick demise should be evidence enough.

Younger players these days are used to MOBAs where you jump straight in. People talking about the few who find difficult grinding fun, should remember there are also some young people who like 80s music, however the money is in selling modern music.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Monstrois-doomhammer

if you did not try normal yet is the same difficulty of lfr same mechanism, just no determination buff and queu button into 3 section.

I did one night of Uldir when it was released, with my guild. But it just reinforced that I just don’t like raiding. I don’t like the waiting around. I don’t like the tactics. I don’t like wiping because some guy in the raid just doesn’t have a clue. I don’t like wiping, period. I don’t like any of it.
LFR lets me do it without too much hassle. I don’t have to ask/look/wait for a group. I don’t have to know tactics (I have enough common sense to get by). I don’t have to talk to anyone. Kills usually come pretty fast and if there is a wipe, yeah I’m annoyed but at least we get a stacking buff then. LFR is the best option for a flawed system (for me).

[Osangar-aszune (Osangar)]

@Rezista-ravencrest

LFR is for the most part a failiure

How is it a failure? I would agree with you if it required no skill whatsoever however that argument is pure hyperbole once again as you and I both know that if all 25 players just turned up and either AFK’d or, the other great piece of anti LFR hyperbole, just auto attacked, then the group would wipe before they even got to the first boss.

I am not denying that the skill ceiling for LFR is low however it does exist and there has to be players that have a modicum of ability in order for even the LFR to succeed.

As for the whole Activision thing why can’t people just accept that Blizzard have dropped the ball and that it has nothing to do with these spurious overlords!

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

@Ignatious-thunderhorn

I don’t play it, however 8 million hits for the ability to hack it would suggest that there is some demand by people to do so. You can’t compare offline games to WOW.

Ok, Dark souls can be played online and it has very enjoyable online features. Anyway since that is not a good example, then lets talk about popular games that are really hard to learn. Dota 2 very complex online game that takes hundreds of hours to learn, has the biggest esports (if you look at the price pools) and is probably in the top 5 of most players in steam.
There is a huge demand for games that challenge the player, and a game that was demanding and complex turning into easy to understand and accessible will make a lot of ppl not happy with it.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Rékthal-frostwhisper

There is a huge demand for games that challenge the player, and a game that was demanding and complex turning into easy to understand and accessible will make a lot of ppl not happy with it.

And the exact opposite is also true. So what’s your point?

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

@Osangar-aszune

I am not denying that the skill ceiling for LFR is low however it does exist and there has to be players that have a modicum of ability in order for even the LFR to succeed.

2-3 ppl actually doing what they need to do is enough to complete a “raid”, there is no skill ceiling.

@Osangar-aszune

As for the whole Activision thing why can’t people just accept that Blizzard have dropped the ball and that it has nothing to do with these spurious overlords!

Blizzard has totally lost their mind at least with wow, but I can’t deny the fact that Activision is garbage. Activision has a say in things in Blizzard and it affects.

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

@Rékthal-frostwhisper

Dota 2 very complex online game that takes hundreds of hours to learn,

1. It is still a MOBA not an MMO, almost like saying that wow BGs are a game in themselves.

2. It has around 1m players, a tiny fraction of what WOW has had over the years.

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

And the exact opposite is also true. So what’s your point?

@Rékthal-frostwhisper

a game that was demanding and complex turning into easy to understand and accessible will make a lot of ppl not happy with it.

That is my point. If you didn’t catch it I was talking about wow there.

[Astrisha-silvermoon]

I decided to main Druid this xpac. I haven’t found a single reason to run lfr yet. Normal is probably easier because more people know what they are doing. If you don’t like lfr don’t play it. I don’t do rated pop (yet). I am not asking however for its removal. Stop being a “whiney female”.

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

@Ignatious-thunderhorn

• It is still a MOBA not an MMO, almost like saying that wow BGs are a game in themselves.
• It has around 1m players, a tiny fraction of what WOW has had over the years.

Dota is much more than a moba even tho the normal game mode is the most popular 1, it has much more game modes than wow has different kind of content.

[Bartak-silvermoon]

To be honest there should only be 2 raiding difficulties. the current system is a joke. guilds did run through BOD on heroic at the first day. Pug’s are doing it all the time. So called “raiding” guilds only do heroic. Its just modes to give wellfare gear to bad raiders. There should only be mythic and lfr. Mythic for the raiders and lfr for the tourists. Not heroic and normal for tourists with slightly more time.

[Tèsla-silvermoon (Tèsla)]

Normal could be just for training. But i agree with you 4 diff are too much

[Rezista-ravencrest (Rezista)]

@Osangar-aszune

How is it a failure?

I just told you - it is made for people who don’t play the game. Previous versions of LFR may have not had that in mind, but current LFR is simply a tourist mode for people who have no intentions of actually playing the game. On top of that there is an insentive for raiders to go into LFR, which is just another nail in the coffin. You mash up the people with two entirely diferent persepctives about the game and there is bound to be huge amount of toxicity. If LFR should exist in the current state, it shouldn’t reward anything but cosmetics.