How LFG, ilevel and making the game more accessible is ruining the game

Rékthal-frostwhisper · January 31, 2019, 5:37pm

I’m sorry but I can’t remember any facts been presented to me.
I remember the fact that subcount has gone down about 50% since the release of LFR, is that the fact?

Tahra-earthen-ring · January 31, 2019, 5:38pm

I really cba to scroll through the thread and quote them.
Maybe Punyelf will want to.

Destruct-runetotem · January 31, 2019, 5:50pm

Didn’t want to go into this ebcause I know how he/she is with defending can’t lose warfronts, LFR and titanforging. But I will bite, if it’s meant to get people into rading then why:

A) Are guild struggeling more and more every expac?
B) They had to axe flex mode after just 1 tier despite it was meant for LFR people and pugs with less time.

So yes, LFR failed in that purpose it barely got anybody into raiding and to bribe raiders into it (LFR isn’t raiding like warfronts isn’t a BG) by having being the only content outside of a call to arms (and mission boards but we ignore since it requires 0 gameplay) that gives raiders their augment runes?

LFR turned from that amazing alt content in it’s pre-nerf state of MoP to just being a free loot machine where you hope for TF or if you like the recouler farm LFR for the recouler. I regret fighting in WoD for LFR to get it’s loot/tier back.

Celadina-doomhammer · January 31, 2019, 5:52pm

The only fact you need to know is that Blizzard have stated without LFR less money would go towards raids period as only a select handful were using the content ,there words not mine so you have to do what we all have done and like it or lump it .
And you have not got one solid fact to prove that LFR has made the game die .

Lanie-argent-dawn · January 31, 2019, 5:54pm

Don’t make me come in here again, Rékthal!

Osangar-aszune · January 31, 2019, 5:55pm

While we are picking on facts there was a Blizzard statement, back when they made such things, that the burnout from WoW was somewhere in the region of 90% so maybe the fact is that the addition of these elements has actually had a positive impact in ebbing the flow of people leaving the game…

Redoctober-frostmane · January 31, 2019, 5:55pm

Except for the correlation between decline and the introduction of LFR, which is actually a fact. It doesn’t imply causation, but explaining it away was always problematic and the explanations really weak.

Celadina-doomhammer · January 31, 2019, 5:56pm

https://www.engadget.com/2011/12/12/today-in-wow/?guccounter=1

Raid difficulty

Quote:

That way, there’s something to look forward to on heroic instead of the difficulty just being higher. Want the REAL ending? Beat it on the REAL difficulty. Simple as that.

In terms of storytelling and content accessibility, there isn’t a real difficulty. The way we handled Ragnaros was kind of unique, but he’s not the final boss of this expansion.

Your idea is quite contrary to our motivation for implementing multiple difficulties. We want as many people as possible to be able to experience the story, while still preserving many of the more prestigious rewards and achievements for those who complete Heroic difficulty.

Celadina-doomhammer · January 31, 2019, 5:58pm

I remember many reason why subs dropped end of cata and not only because of LFR for example

Cata people disliked the revamp
MoP people disliked the Asian theme
WoD people disliked none flying and lack of content outside of raids
Legion people disliked the AP grind
BFA people just dislike

There is many factors to look at we can not and should not blame one aspect that the OP use’s often since cata yet wants it removed to look good infront of his peer’s.

Im and ex mythic raider and even when i was doing said content i did not wish for LFR to be removed it just shows arrogance towards other players and being selfish .

Redoctober-frostmane · January 31, 2019, 6:02pm

Yes, many reasons for sure. Trying to point out that a single thing made the game decline is… childish. But none of that implies that LFR wasn’t a part of it. And furthermore, it most certainly proves beyond reasonable doubt that LFR didn’t “save” the game or lead to growth in any way.

I don’t wish for LFR to be removed either. I think the game has many other problems a lot worse than LFR.

Celadina-doomhammer · January 31, 2019, 6:04pm

That i can agree with me and you both agree there is many aspect about BFA we dislike and there is some i like but the OP throwing toys out of his pram and blaming LFR isnt good enough imho .

Pruning
classes
content
pvp
none flying

i could carry on and on i just think and sorry for being harsh the OP is a selfish person .

Rékthal-frostwhisper · January 31, 2019, 6:04pm

Don’t forget the talent f up. That was probably a big 1 too.

Redoctober-frostmane · January 31, 2019, 6:07pm

Yes, we do. But my point is really that the OP is free to consider LFR as being really bad for the game, because in reality there is no actual fact that proves otherwise, and when there are no hard facts that can prove anything convincingly either way, opinions can be all over the place. Anyone is free to disagree, obviously.

Rékthal-frostwhisper · January 31, 2019, 6:07pm

I’m blaming a lot of things, if you would actually read the original post you would know that. Instead you are thinking that I am all out and only against LFR.
Even tho I don’t know about the EU law against lootboxes, I know very well what I wrote to the original post.

Celadina-doomhammer · January 31, 2019, 6:08pm

That isnt because of LFR thats because how blizzard have changed other settings of the raids .And how the have destroyed and removed perks from guilds .

Yet many more people actually see and use the content then any other time in WoW.

Celadina-doomhammer · January 31, 2019, 6:09pm

True opionions are just subjective views and my spelling it awful tonight cramp in fingers and wrists

Redoctober-frostmane · January 31, 2019, 6:10pm

Auch. Maybe it’s a hint from your body to take a break from writing for this evening. Get well!

Minria-argent-dawn · January 31, 2019, 6:19pm

How LFG, ilevel and making the game more accessible is ruining the game

No. For Pete’s sake. No. Problem is not LFG or ilvl or making the game more accessible. It is the RESULT of the problem.
The problem is - the world itself is just a place for dailies and gates to actual content - dungeons and raids. Back in TBC and Vanilla world itself was challenging and had relatively high ceiling of progress for your average casual like me. We had meanings of progress outside of dungeons you know in WORLD of Warcraft. These days casuals go to level cap (because THANKS BLIZZ - LEVELS ARE MEANINGLESS) then to heroics and then to M+ and dailies with small pinch of LFG.
You remove this - and the entire game is empty.
What Blizzard should do is to make raids and dungeons OPTIONAL path of progress or even remove them entirely for the time being. Raids are spice of the game. The WORLD is bread and butter. And the world is just irrelevant these days. Boring unchallenging dailies that don’t bring anything meaningful to the table except maybe slight chance of titanforged gear.
Even treasure chests screwed so badly that when you see them you just ‘meh’ and go on your own business.
So before Blizzard would start dealing with spice - like M+ or raids the world should be taken care first.
But of course this isn’t going to happen. Because someone got bright idea to make WoW into e-sport and lose last pieces of RPG in it’s ‘MMORPG’. Everyone can make their game into e-sports. Even Farming Simulator made their game into e-sport (without donations, mind that!) so trying to push WoW there isn’t such an original idea. So here we have it - MMO (not RPG) called ‘Instances of Warcraft’.

Rékthal-frostwhisper · January 31, 2019, 6:19pm

I actually do think that LFR is part of the problem with guilds struggling. New player going through LFR doesn’t understand why should he ever do it on higher difficulty. Also if ppl think LFR sucks like I do, they would probably think that raiding sucks because LFR sucks. It should be made clear that LFR has nothing to do with actual raiding.

I highly think that shortcuts are not a good thing in a game. Just imagine buying a game and then without doing anything getting to the last boss. That’s not an experience I want with games and I can’t imagine anyone wanting that.

I’m here thinking that they are trying to remove the MMO from it too, by implementing LFG since you don’t have to say a word to do everything in the game. So it’s just a G now?

Ezikan-draenor · January 31, 2019, 9:26pm

I disagree.

If player A is willing to spend 6 hours a week raiding, or even spend time pugging a raid and player B is only willing to do some LFR, emissaries or a warfronts. Player A has put in a lot more effort than player B.

If you’re not willing to put in the same effort that someone else is, you shouldn’t be able to get the same rewards as them.

No matter what alternative to raiding progression system (it already exists, M+) its only fair that everyone needs to put in the same effort to continue progressing.

Yes.
If you don’t want to progress content, you shouldn’t have access to the rewards. It was like that for a decade.

Exclusivity is a good thing, it leads to desire. You then become invested, you eventually get what you desired and now you want more, leading to continued investment.

Minimum to make the casual players happy? They didn’t give players free current raid gear for over a decade and the player base was happy enough without it.