How to break the "go go go" mentality of WoW?

What? Why? Why would anyone in a raid care if you are doing M+? Thats like asking for Arena rating when signing up to M+? M+ requires a whole different skill set than raiding and vice versa.

It means faster gearing, and therefore faster clearing of raid bosses. It’s one of the complaints I’ve heard and seen regularly, either it’s simply expected of raiders in a guild to do M+, or it’s more covert but still sort of tangible they should, or they themselves feel they are a weak link in the chain if they ignore this facet of the game while fellow raiders make that extra effort. It obviously depends on the guild but it’s not uncommon.

I thought this was about pugging, or at least that’s how I took it from the way it was phrased.

Now granted I haven’t really done any actual raiding this season, only did LFR for a trinket and bought a HC boost on my evoker to see if I can get the leggo, so I can’t say much on the state of it. But usually at the start of the season it’s pretty easy to get into NM and HC runs even without gear(obv you do need at least some ilvl, but you can get by with what you got from the previous season) and achievements, it’s after that when people start demanding overgearing and FoS. By that time shouldn’t you have gotten the gear already?

As for guilds, each one has it’s own rules, nothing to be done about that.

You could well be right, and in that case it shouldn’t matter no!

I’m afraid I automatically associated it with experiences in the past where people I knew quit over this, because they lost the joy in playing and burned out with how these systems potentially feed into each other. But pugging or guild are indeed very different matters :slight_smile:

I used to be an officer in a guild in BfA where dabbled in mythic and we only demanded our raiders to do 1 +15 a week during Nyalotha, due to the M+ vault being the only guaranteed corruption source (before the vendor). We also knew that not everyone liked doing M+ so we pretty much offered up our own keys to people who couldn’t get into groups. I understand that most guilds won’t be going to that extend and idk how it was now, like I said back then you only needed 1 dungeon for the chest, do raiding guilds require you to fill all 3 slots (8 dungeons) or just do an M+ weekly?

I have no idea on the specifics as I’m guildless these days, and when I’ve seen the complaint here on the forums and in game I didn’t ask for details on what exactly was expected.

During BfA I was in a guild where it wasn’t demanded but still sort of expected and you’d definitely end up in the casual ‘b’ group if you didn’t do M+. It wasn’t simply for the vault, but truly to fill in slots until you’d get upgrades from the raid. These were quite chill people, and from chats I had about this with people in other guilds who disliked it I got a similar impression, nothing overly demanding and absolutely friendly, but this was still part of the deal if you wanted to raid more seriously.

Give mobs stronger abilities, like tankbusters and lockdowns on healers and aoe healing to discourage pulling several packs.
Then reduce the number of packs to account for the increase in per mob difficulty.
In the current raid I think it was done pretty well with some trash packs, even in LFR there was need to reset because tank pulled everything and the mobs were just shielding, healing and buffing each other non-stop.
There were just no way we could take them down because we couldn’t burst them down with the shields and healing and we couldnt interrupt and CC enough because they were too many with support abilities.

Overall Blizzard need tovsolve the gearing issue in raids to solve this bleeding in effect. Maybe by removing the weekly lockout on bosses could help raids compete with the spamable nature of M+.

Except if you take too long to get a group filled people will start leaving out of boredom - seen many times. So there is “go go go” mentality in raids as well.

Well yeah, people signed up to play not stand and watch the scenery for hours. Obv there is nuance here and some examples would be nice if you could provide them, like how much time are we talking about, 15 mins or hours waiting?

people often leave just after a couple of minutes of waiting.

Yeah, I don’t understand those kinds of people. Best way to avoid this is to find a raiding guild or community.

I mean…is an MMO…which means that people have to actually communicate with other players. The whole point of an MMO is to find a group of people with similar mindset and do stuff(whatever it is…m+, raid, mog runs, mounts runs, whatever you like).

Now…the notion of “let’s support solo players” came from absolutely nothing else than us being in 3rd millennium, where we have to adapt everything for everybody (even if it doesn’t make sense). I mean … playing an mmo and having social anxiety, and ask everybody to understand that you want to have same thing as those who actually group up, talk and do stuff, it’s fair just for those who ask. I also have social anxiety, but worked up to at least allow the minimum social interaction for an MMO (it’s not like I invite them in my house. I stay with the group on discord).

So adapting a mmo for people who refuse to socialize and find a group of same mentality players, is like asking the school’s football team to also accept 2 kids that have their legs paralyzed, and play the game like nothing happened. They created a new sport for it. Same happens here : you have MMORPGs for people that actually want to socialize and do stuff, and you have RPGs for people that can’t do that, but still they enjoy games that are story based, and have loot and so on.

Not everything should be adapted for everybody.

Personally, give an option for those who don’t want a timed run. Ie exact same instances but no timer.

MMO means you exist in the same world as the other players.DOES NOT mean you have to group with them or play with them.You are just not alone in the world like in solo player games.

An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

But not necessarely grouped up as many here seem to think.

I do like that there is loads to do solo and other things to do in groups.

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You can play solo, yes. But most of the end game stuff are group. Actually at this point, there are a lot more things to do as a solo player than group content (pet battles, collecting mounts, reputation, achievements, farming, and so). But when it comes to dungeons and raids…guess what: it’s a group content, is not a solo content. And those shouldn’t be adapt to fit everyone, as they didn’t adapt pet battles to fit anyone either (or any other collectible stuff).

It is not as much as a lot of guilds require it, but even in a guild if you exclusively do raids only you will be notably far behind the gear curve compared to those who run keys. They can upgrade gear faster than raiders and can reach higher gear upgrades easier as for a raider you need to do mythic (until we got the mega-dungeon that is).

For casual guilds this may not matter that much, but the higher you go the more your group expects you to do 8 dungeons a week, as not doing so leaves you at the mercy of even worse RNG. It is something that the group collectively expects from one-another.

This I expect to be even worse in pugs, as when it comes to DPS you are competing against people who are geared from M+. In the first few weeks this may not be that big of a problem, but he longer the season continues the bigger the ilvl gap will go.

You can do that now, just ignore the timer.

but is that not just Mythic Normal ? Or you want a +20 without a timer for the ilvl gear it drops ? That would then be no point to it and may as well just let the gear drop from Mythic 0,