How to end the division between Retail and Classic

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

I don’t see it as special treatment at all.

I do.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

There’s a wave of old games getting a remastered or remade version… this is just the Blizz way of jumping on the bandwagon. (and those remasters/remades generally do well with the gamers)

Not at all comparable.
That Warcraft 3 remaster, now THAT’S what that is.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Selfish would be looking through everything from the ‘I’ perspective without consideration of other perspectives.

Which they are doing with their ‘remove this, remove that’ whines.
EVERYONE looks at it from their perspective, because they want a game THEY enjoy. Well, THEY now have a game THEY can enjoy. I won’t ever enjoy Classic.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

I basicly stated that just because a part of the community enjoys classic more so that retail at the moment… does not mean that they should be denied for advocating a future version of wow that they might enjoy more so than the current.

And I’m going to try my hardest to deny them actually GETTING it. Because it will change WoW into something I (and other like-minded players) will NOT enjoy.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

By the way, I think a fair few of those QoL changes are things that they really do not want to see in classic. As they are part of the problem with retail.

Yeah MY POINT EXACTLY.
I’m not enjoying Classic BECAUSE IT IS LACKING THOSE THINGS (among other things like better graphics and such). So keep that mentality away from the version I enjoy, thank you very much.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

‘I’ don’t want those to happen? You aren’t the sole wow player…

Well, duh. But I can only speak for myself, since I don’t pretend to know the opinions of everyone else. But I’m prettyyyyyy sure there’s others who feel the same.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

There’s no them vs us… WoW’s one game.

No. Classic and ‘retail’ (I hate that term, I prefer ‘the real WoW’) are definitely NOT the same game. I enjoy playing one and I don’t enjoy playing the other.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

And everyone’s paying the same fee for it. So everyone’s opinion is equally valuable (literally).

Yes. And like I said; I’ll do whatever I can to try and stop ‘them’ from getting what they want, because what they want ruins my fun (and that of like-minded players - hope you’re happy with me adding that now everytime I mention MY opinion).

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Besides, considering the storm that Classic has brought, I’d be surprised if Blizz wouldn’t be looking at what made that inception of WoW so desirable to a fair amount of people. Nostalgia is a factor, but it’s not the entire sum of it…

Yeah most of it IS nostalgia. It’s just hype. And it won’t last.
Sure there will always be people playing it, but not the numbers its getting now.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Why would that be unfair?

Sigh. Because they already have a tailored version they like.
And now they want to change the real WoW more into that?! NO. Just no.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Just like you and anyone else, they’re free to voice their ideas and preferences. At the end of the day, it’s Blizz that develops the game, not us.

See some of my previous replies in this post. I think I made my stance pretty clear.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

And calling a whole group of people entitled and greedy, after you’ve disregarded all arguements out of purely personal preference… I hope you see the irony in it

First; I’m not doing that. Only the ones who make silly demands, like removing LFG, LFR and such from the real WoW.

Second; I already explained why I use ‘my opinion’ to state what I think. I’m not pretending to know what everyone else thinks. So stop with the ‘irony’ because there is none.

[Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords]

Heh, well… I for one really hope that Blizz does light a candle from Classic when they build for the future of wow, because one united community is stronger than a fractured one.

And ‘I’ am fully convinced that wow can only improve by embracing (or perhaps re-inventing) some of the concepts that actually made it into the greatest MMO of it’s generation.

And for me personally, the only and best change they can make is removing X-realms, LFG and LFR. (friendslisted people can still play together regardless of realm though)
Make epics less handout and more impactful (only from raids or challenging endgame content - atleast 90% of them)

Other then that… maybe up the value of levelling again, and levelling content relevant. A way of doing that is reinventing a talent tree again, but find a way to combine it with the current talent selection.

Other than that… remove gnomes and we’re good

[Malgrok-argent-dawn]

For me, bliz should redo their server type and propose something like :

Causual : Warmode, X-realms, LFG, LFR and mobs/leveling with a difficulty on par with BFA.
Medium : No warmode, pvp on, no fly, no lfg/lfr/xrealm, mobs/leveling with a difficulty on par with classic.
Hardcore : Increase difficulty futher, add loss of xp (or even chance to loose stuff) on death, make it like old school mmo.

[Daestra-turalyon]

@Ishayu-frostmane

Agreed.

Then tell me and 1000’s of others without spending our cash how are we meant to group on dead servers, servers which were once full ?
I know you will say blizzard needs to connect or give free transfers and we both know the answer is they will not due to cash .
So what else can you offer ?

@Ishayu-frostmane

Agreed again, but this is going to be REALLY controversial.

Why ? Netherstorm, Nagrand ,Shadowmoon valley (tbc) I could list more and more zones which look stunning on ground and by air and please don’t play the PVP card not all servers are PVP servers .

@Ishayu-frostmane

Yes - and the best way to do this is to make sure professions give the best rewards. If a boss drops an item, it’s instantly usable. If a boss drops a recipe, you need to get it, buy the mats, and make it, and you might need to farm the raids a lot, too, for BoP items. There is nothing wrong with people buying good items for metric tons of gold

I agree I miss the old recipes from raids the recipes in BT and MH for proffs were amazing .

@Ishayu-frostmane

Definitely. The classes need to be more focused on resources and small utilities, and less on “HURR DURR MY ROTATION IS HARD AND DOES MUCHOS DAMUJ”

In reality, a big part of this problem is just mobs not dealing any ****ing damage and also the scaling; once one place is easy, it’s all easy. There is no progression in there

50/50 on this one because from 1-120 its piss boring the need to sort levelling from the roots up again .Scaling is awful just plain and simple awful .

@Ishayu-frostmane

And then there are the zones. Holy ****ing **** they’re so DENSE!!

Vol Dun (spelling) is great but get to other parts and its to stuffy .

[Adq-aegwynn (Adq)]

Raiding has never been better?
idk what you are on about.
Everyone cries about BFA
The game is fine, it’s the players that are trash.
Literally so many people cry instead of just playing - really sad times…

[Redoctober-frostmane (Redoctober)]

@Radium-dragonblight

Who are you talking about here? Hefty amount those people playing classic right now also play retail and enjoy it. Classic playerbase is not some separate entity that has been sitting under rock and waiting classic to come out.

@Trelw-alleria

As far as I am able to tell, BfA and Classic have very small overlap in terms of players. Without making additional calculations I am going to say around 10%, but I may have to revise that once I have both enough time and energy.

Usually what Trelw says is highly accurate and certainly far better informed than mere speculation.

[Betelgëusë-argent-dawn]

Not gonna happen , rolling back entitely to a similar model of classic will make alot of people quit those changes that happened from classic to retail were gradual between the expansions if all of sudden stuff got removed for example lfr loads of people would cry rivers. Sadly blizzard mistake is to try to please everyone instead of listening the more hardcore fanbase and make the game great like it used to be. But sadly the hardcore fanbase is probably 10% of the entire population while the other 90% are mostly semi casual people who couldnt handle those changes. Of course blizzard since is a business company will do its best to please everyone and wouldnt wanna risk to piss off a huge chunk of its population.

[Straugaf-zandalar-tribe]

The thing is these features are probably liked by people who play exclusively retail so

Eventually theyre going to want to push people to retail so they can buy €25 mounts they dont need

That or they’ll try to push the store to classic but I hope theyre not that stupid

[Ishayu-frostmane (Ishayu)]

@Daestra-turalyon

Then tell me and 1000’s of others without spending our cash how are we meant to group on dead servers, servers which were once full ?
I know you will say blizzard needs to connect or give free transfers and we both know the answer is they will not due to cash .
So what else can you offer ?

They really have got to just fix that server issue. I’ve been saying it for 10 years now, and you’re not going to convince me I’m wrong by asserting that Blizzard “just aren’t going to do it”. They have to. I have nothing else to offer.

@Daestra-turalyon

Why ? Netherstorm, Nagrand ,Shadowmoon valley (tbc) I could list more and more zones which look stunning on ground and by air and please don’t play the PVP card not all servers are PVP servers .

Flying mounts take away the sense of scale and the sense of world. Having flying is the same as having aeroplanes - massively convenient and brings the entire world really close; but is that really what we want when the core fantasy we’re trying to sell is “exploring a vast world”? I don’t think so.

===========================

I agree with everything else you said.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Heh, well… I for one really hope that Blizz does light a candle from Classic when they build for the future of wow, because one united community is stronger than a fractured one.

I don’t think you get it; there’s not going to be ‘one united community’. Ever.
But especially if they bring big changes to current WoW it WILL piss off many, many players and those players will complain and demand the undoing of those changes and/or quit. Etc.

There is not one single way they can make WoW because there’s way too many different opinions about almost every single aspect of the game.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

And ‘I’ am fully convinced that wow can only improve by embracing (or perhaps re-inventing) some of the concepts that actually made it into the greatest MMO of it’s generation.

And it’s there that we disagree.
I think WoW changed for the better. And reverting back to those old crappy raid-or-die days is bad.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

And for me personally, the only and best change they can make is removing X-realms, LFG and LFR. (friendslisted people can still play together regardless of realm though)

This right here. You’re what I would call a ‘Classic extremist’. These are not changes that would benefit ‘the game’, but only people who think like you.
So who was the selfish one again?

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Other then that… maybe up the value of levelling again, and levelling content relevant. A way of doing that is reinventing a talent tree again, but find a way to combine it with the current talent selection.

This I can agree with. But not your other extremist ideas.

@Galadiel-hydraxian-waterlords

Other than that… remove gnomes and we’re good

I’d start with removing Draenei, but meh.

[Druchi-wildhammer]

Realistically the classic players have gotten what they want, they knew what they were getting and they got it. That they’re now not satisfied with that is disgusting to be frank.

[Blödughadda-twisting-nether]

@Adq-aegwynn

Raiding has never been better?
idk what you are on about.
Everyone cries about BFA
The game is fine, it’s the players that are trash.
Literally so many people cry instead of just playing - really sad times…

I agree with you, raiding is great. I wish more people would get in to it. However the thing I puke on is everything else besides raiding. WQs, Nazjatar farming, warfront, Island expedition is not good content. If I want raid on a decent level I am forced to do that crap also.

And no I dont consider lfr raiding.

@Druchi-wildhammer

Realistically the classic players have gotten what they want, they knew what they were getting and they got it. That they’re now not satisfied with that is disgusting to be frank.

So we who enjoy Classic cant discuss retail anymore? And I am in no shape or form happy with blizzards work with Classic. Its a great game but they have clearly butchered the end game.

[Daestra-turalyon]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

I’d start with removing Draenei, but meh.

Told you last week leave them alone bully especially Sinaaki !!

[Radium-dragonblight]

@Redoctober-frostmane

Usually what Trelw says is highly accurate and certainly far better informed than mere speculation

I agree on what you say about Trelw. I am however confused how he has calculated this overlap? Can you somehow see from classic character who that player is on retail (i haven’t found a way unless asking or someone being bnet friend). Also activity differences don’t say much, for example my friends have all been active just in classic last weeks but all are happy retail players waiting next patch to come. But if just looking at activity they would look like pure classic players at this moment.

[Druchi-wildhammer]

You got what you asked for, just accept that players have progressed vastly from what they were then. That’s why the endgame has been annihilated.

You are more than welcome to discuss retail of course, but when that devolves into mocking retail players for not playing classic, don’t be surprised when we reciprocate.

[Sinaaki-doomhammer (Sinaaki)]

Not too worried about gnomes tbh, i’ll just stomp on them with my hooves and whip’em with my tail (maybe thats why tahra wants us removed?)

[Daestra-turalyon]

Lucky gnomes can velfs get the same treatment especially the tail

[Redoctober-frostmane (Redoctober)]

I don’t really have an answer, you would have to ask Trelw. I assume he correlated the recorded activity of Classic with the estimated decrease in activity in retail. For example, if the activity in retail decreased by X but the population of Classic is 10X, you can make the assumption that the overlap is 10%. But don’t quote me on that, best to ask Trelw how he calculated it. However, if his estimate is not entirely off the mark, it would mean that there is a really really sizable group of players that would have qualified towards what you and Galadiel were talking about, and I was pointing that there are decent odds for that to be true.

[Rinsuu-draenor]

Just go play classic lol,no thanks

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Daestra-turalyon

Told you last week leave them alone bully especially Sinaaki !!

They are an abomination that shouldn’t be part of the Warcraft universe.

@Sinaaki-doomhammer

Not too worried about gnomes tbh, i’ll just stomp on them with my hooves and whip’em with my tail (maybe thats why tahra wants us removed?)

No. Because I sincerely hate everything about that race. Their look, their retconned lore, their pink crystal tech, their horrible accent.

Nothing personal of course. But I can’t help the way I feel.

To stay on topic though; maybe that’s how we end the division between retail and classic… removing Draenei.