Upgrade on the completion of a dungeon, of course. With higher levels rewarded based on how low the death count was. So under five deaths it’s +3, under ten after that is +2, otherwise it’s +1.
Simple as that. If you want it timed then keep an invisible timer for after the dungeon finishes, or for your Dumass E-Sport scene.
And what if people want the Mythic+ ramping up of difficulty without having to worry with the stress of timers? They get to eat Tauren dung apparently? Sod that.
so basically turn dungeons into “hex everything but that one add”
yeah no thanks, if I wanted to play a dumpster dungeons I’d play vanilla
They want things easier imo. Without a timer what is the point, anyone can do any dungeon. They’ll be doing +140 soon.
literally
start at 10am, hex everything end dungeon run at 7pm with 141 key
Isn’t that basically a strategy being undertaken in dungeon runs already, or are people so overconfident that they feel like they don’t need to do that anymore?
Very cute.
Oh no! Heaven forbid that someone wants to do dungeons in a more controlled enviroment! Shame on people wanting to do this!
I mean… It’s not like you can already do that, at the expense of possibly not making a fast key.
Well, not dying is a pretty good point. And you can still have an invisible timer that tells you how long the run lasted at the end of the dungeon. That’s all pretty good things if you ask me.
Except not really, because drumroll Enemy stat increase. Meaning that if you go in to a +10 while your tank has at best 100k health, your dungeon run won’t be a smooth one, and no amount of CC will help your tank survive a mob who eats him.
X to Doubt.
Without timer M+ would not have that competitive and progressive point and I think the current system is nice enough - it does reward people even when you fail timer. Originally M+ really didn’t, but they saw it doesn’t work and changed the key system a bit. And now I feel m+ has not much stress - you do as you go, and hopefully have great fun in it. Its great when make it to timer, but in my opinion its not much of a issue when do not.
least not for me.
sap left, sheep right, pull mid, was fun 15 years ago, now prefer to pre plan all my pulls with cds available. And even when you see tank go pull M+ pack with no cc, there’s a lot of in-combat control happening, but other people not doing it (in the party)may not even notice it. There are pulls where almost all my things are on cd from aoe stun, twice of kicks, aoe knockacks and even engineering things. And this is not less of a control than sheep and sap ! This week for example - how many times you have seen druids use typhoon, or monks ring, or CC the caster that cannot be kicked and did not come with group.
Modern CC has changed forms - it is less static and happens now middle of combat.
That would be too easy. Just cc everything and good game. No I’m sorry but this is a matter of gid gud. And I’m average so that says a lot I think. I don’t feel entitled to do +20 keys at all. You gotta earn it.
Without a timer I’m sure I can beat a +50 given long enough time.
Probably not, at some point it will become mathematically impossible for you even with theoretical perfect play.
This isn’t a cc simulator. Timers are needed. You can disagree but you’d be wrong.
How?
Like I said; If you are undergeared or don’t do that great in general, all the CC in the world won’t save you.
Uhhh… How does the thought of “Timers are stupid, get rid of them” translate to “Git Gut”? I think you’re reaching.
No… It doesn’t.
Okay. Your point in saying that? I don’t bother with M+ because of the timers at all. Get rid of those and I might consider taking a second glance at those.
“Durrrr, you gotsa ern teh right to play game, duuuuurh!”
People saying “You got to earn the right to play” when coming down to a ramping difficulty setting are just… The worst, I feel.
Uhm… No? Did you even read the fallacy I wrote in regards to this?
If you are undergeared, CC or the lack of timers will not save you from dying over and over again to the first pack of mobs without even reaching the first boss
Nobody said it is. Crowd Control is utility that helps make pulls easier.
I remember a time when they were a mandatory thing to use or else wipes would happen with a guarantee… Man, I miss early Cataclysm.
Why? Because it either encourages people to rush and make mistakes, or to pressure people to rush and make mistakes? Or even both? Or even waste two minutes trying to skirt past a pack that would take up a minute at most?
I see people say “Timers are needed!” But never provide any solid reasoning behind it. Because they improve the difficulty? Please… A difficult task is still gonna be difficult, a timer only guarantees that people are going ti end up making mistakes, people getting frustrated, keys not being done “In time” and perpetuate the sentiment that Mythic+ dungeons suck.
You didn’t put forward anything that would disprove or debunk my sentiment that Timers should be removed, so I cannot be wrong.
I don’t need to debunk stupid stuff.
If you come here claiming the moon is made of cheese I’m not going to debunk it with long winded rebuttals. I’m just going to dismiss it as unworthy of proper attention.
But just to make you happy, heres one. Timers are needed to keep the experience limited to a reasonable time frame.
I was more than happy to debunk the “Pro Timer” arguments, even though they were complete stupidity.
Good thing we’re not talking about Edamer Moons then, and we are instead talking about “Should Timers be in M+ Dungeons?”
So… You are trying to rationalize your stand, by degrading the opposition, and then concluding it as “Unworthy of proper attention”. Am I getting that right?
You are a very rational human being, aren’t you?
See? Was that so hard? A shame it doesn’t make any sense because the same could be said for virtually everything in the game, and really only applies to the E-Sports scene.
I mean, after all, if the intent is to keep it in a reasonable time frame, why not stick a timer on everything in the game?
Raids, regular dungeons, all the battlegrounds that don’t have a timer, every basic activity in the gsme that allows players to go afk as long as they want.
Everything should be done in a reasonable time frame!
Try to come up with a proper pro-timer argument that can’t be debunked with a counterpoint example that took no more than five seconds to think of.
Edit: Another point as to why it doesn’t make sense: You can still spend all day in a M+ dungeon, just means that when you complete it you won’t get a key level up. If the intent was to keep it in a reasonable time frame, the game would kick you out of tge dungeon for running out of time or despawn everything in the dungeon.
Sure but it’s gonna be Memey high keys without timers.
Wait, the moon is not made of cheese?
Al BG’s have timers, either through “a timer” or some feature that makes it end when a score is reached (and it will be reached in a reasonable amount of time)
Every raid boss ingame has either a hard or soft enrage that places a cap on how long combat can last.
You come across as not very clued in.
The timer is part of the challenge. What is so hard to understand ? I do not want to get rude, but timer is part of the bundle that ‘makes a m+’ - Can you make it into time X, which requires you to have x amount of performance and it allows you to compete also with yourself. RIO website has loads of funny statistics and it shows even how my tanking speed has changed - does it mean have I become better as player, or just better geared, but its fun thing.
But since you do not like timers, current system allows you to ignore them, as I said, so what is the big deal ? Modern system has best for both sides.
you can’t fix pugs. like EVER. Not in wow, not in any other game. Not everyone is a decent human being when they play games.
They leave, they cheat, they curse and they abuse. Reporting, blocking, ignoring, etc. is the only thing available and it’ll never be enough.
Which is why, it’s best if you start finding reliable friends to do dungeons with. Because other than that, you’ll never see a fix to this.
I would like to have only one information - number of the keys a person left prematurely for this is the main issue with pugs. I know that won’t protect anyone from having a “fresh” leaver or something like that, but at least there’s a chance of avoiding them.
Yes, you may say “Go find a group of friends or guildies”. I did, but they are not there 24/7, so sometimes I need to pug.
I got the following vision of this system: players who leave will have separate score for that. Now there’s a question: what if somebody already left and these people just disbanded? Well I’m glad you asked. We need to introduce “FORFEIT” button to the keys. When a group leader decides this is undoable or the group faced a leaver he presses that button, the timer stops, the leaving score does not count from that moment.
What about trollkicking? Nothing. It only counts when a person pops “leave a group” button.
Of course you can get dc’d,your cat may be throwing all around the room, but hey, how’s that another 4 people’s problem? If you join the key you should be there no matter what. Other games (eg Overwatch) have Penalty systems for leaving the ranked and they give no sheit whether it was dc/irl/whatever or and intended leave.
Besides, iirc when you get dcd you don’t leave the party, you stay there with “offline” status. At that point the group leader will decide for how long he’s gonna be waiting for you to come back, which is fine I suppose. Like you can always tell beforehand “I might get dcd guys, so keep that in mind, ty”
I assume being patient and waiting for friends and guildies to come online is not an option for you?
The only way I see vote kicking and leaving work is when a system is implemented like in CS:GO:
I think this is the only way it will work and don’t think any other option is feasible.
Well, that means just not playing for several evenings a week. I got myself a M+ group and a guild and a discord community but you do not get every day or evening a group available. Then pugging is the only option. It has nothing to do with patience, or you mean log out, netflix and check the next day.
Addition:
My current M+ group, the tank is moving and not every day available and 1 dps is on a holiday. What am I supposed to do?
You could have just said no. I was only curious and don’t judge.