But… 
on a +2 you do not have to go go go, or play well or take meta classes or do a specific route and do 100% trashcount to make the timer. You can just chill it in time with wipes here or there.
Edit:
The loot you get from emissaries and warfronts bring you on a level that is somewhat at +5 to +8 loot level. (which means you can do +10’s in time with that loot but means less chilling of course).
You can ignore the clock if you choose to, however of course you wont get a key to increase in level if you don’t actually time it. You don’t get to cheat.
And as I said - you can ignore the timer. So i do not even know why you had to respond it in such of length. Instead having both sided satisfied, you insist that it should satisfy just you. As i said and asy again. You do get loot and the chest too even if you do not beat the timer. So do not try too hard to claim as if you get no rewards even when you go slow.
You get the loot and if you are good enough as you claim you are and deserve the reward the low end timers are very forgiving. Just hide it and have fun. DSo do not lie as if you do not get loot at the end of the run.
So let me guess - you just want hand outs ? Or thats how you sound as your only problem now is that your key doesnt get updated, even when you ghet same item level loot as those who complete the timer.
In other words you just artificially make problem out of the timer for yourself, when theres none.
Jesus.
You say bgs dont have timers. I say they do and somhow you desytoyed my argument.
Youre clueless. Also, you dont need to do 30 multiquotes to try to pretend otherwise.
I can’t ignore the timer nor can I climb. The timer is related to the next key. I can’t get a +13 key if I never succeed with lower keys.
Thing is, I do complete them, just not in time. This means I can never get the harder content, because I can’t play with a timer.
Due to UI set up of mine I actually in past i did not see the timers. Legion for example and most of BfA. I now see timers because of an addon. And it has 0 relevance of how fast I pull as tank. And youd imagine tank is the one person, who would get stressed by timer. I don’t - I do not pay any attention to it, so I think if people find timer as stressful - they can hide it and just have fun. but no, crying on forums is better - even when they get exact same reward as those, who beat timer. Just people who beat timer get extra drop, but no extra ilevels.
I do get notice of timer when it goes red and it has passed, but otherwise - my speed does not depend on it. My speed depends of healer mana and how high dps is.
Timer should stay, and those, who dislike it can just hide it. And when the key upgrade is an issue, there are tons of keys to choose from LFG. in most of cases I run M+ its NOT my key.
Oh look, Tahra versus The World featuring “I am Victim” “More insults” “Subjective”, I miss that. Thanks guys for good lecture during work break.
I wonder if entitled people, I mean even in real world, can possibly change their mindset. It’d be sad if they were lost causes 
PS. Nobody likes titanforging. Period.
As I said - you can’t, not necessarily.
Because I am trying to carefully explain to people like you why the timer system is bad, something you fail to grasp upon or even ignore completely, just like it is in this part;
Obviously you ignored the parts where I clearly said “Invisible timer that shows at the end to tell you how you did without it dictating your key level”, or a variant of that.
I don’t care about the loot, I care about leveling my key up without having to play a fiddle to the timer. The loot is more of a bonus to me.
Just I don’t want the timer to dictate whether or not my key actually levels up. If I manage to endure a +7 run, why should I get penalized with no level ups to my key just because I was a minute or five behind the timer?
If I wanted handouts, I’d demand tons of loot and +3 levels even if the clock is three hours overdue because of a ton of deaths or because people were AFK’ing more often than not.
Y’know, wanting the key to be updated even with an expired timer isn’t wanting “Handouts”. If you’d bother to read and understand what I am looking for out of the Mythic+ experience, you’d see that I wish for it to work in the following;
-The timer be removed, or it be invisible and reveal itself when you finish and not be a defining factor in how the end results are. Making it a real personal score to feel proud about rather than something that ranks you
-You get better results based on the low number of deaths of the run
Is that too much to ask? To make Mythic+ be an endurance test that rewards people who carefully plan their way across a dungeon and don’t die too many times, rather than being some time race that pressures people in to making dumb mistakes because “omfg we are in a rush, we gotta pull more than we can comfortably handle to make it to the end!”
That is correct.
And I have clearly outlined that only Capture the Flag and Strand of the Ancients have timers, everything else does not. That is how I destroyed your argument.
Funny, I can say the same for you.
Fight me ontop of the Millenium Tower if you don’t like it.
That is a difficult claim you make there There are certainly players who like to keep getting potential upgrades. I think in the bigger picture it is unhealthy for the game, so I dislike that. But I am sure there are tons of players like getting that big lucky piece of gear.
You say people, who plan it against timer do not have the endurance portion ?
But you are not in OMG rush. You know what the skip thing is about ? Not the timer on its own, but the fact the additional %ge is 100% and filled, and you do not need to kill those mobs.
You’d do that even with timer.
And what endurance test ? if you are THIS good to endure in game, then the timer would be least of your worries either. I am telling you - I am the tank and I do not rush based on timer, my speed is set by healer and dps - you can try that mind set and see how it works for you.
I can do 17 keys to +2 … without looking at timer, but looking at ‘how bored my party is’ - try it. 
You think you and I are too much apart, no we aren’t. I literally cannot care less about timer and as i said - I am the tank, the one person who would be possibly stressed by it. And if you want endurance test - go try one high enough key with it and there you have it.
Or the system that came later. Or remove TF entirely from trinkets. Thats the only thing im willing to debate on.
I know how broken TF is.
The irony is amusing
My point remains. You have no experience other than lfr.
They are removing TF and are replacing it. They dont agree with you either.
Then say what youre doing.
My point remains regardless. I dont have to fake politeness towards me.
Sure mate.
Yeah be glad. Otherwise you would stop gaming all together or would have to go back to hello kitty considering how casual friendly wow is.
[quote=“Aibury-hydraxian-waterlords, post:155, topic:96658, full:true”]
Based on the tone of your response, all I get is “If you do not do hard endgame PvE or PvP, you are not a real gamer and are not playing the game the right way!”[/quote]
He is attempting to discuss a system and its balancing issues while he has absolutely no ground to stay on other than wellfare difficulty mode. He is doing nothing in this game that justifies any kind of upgrades for him. Hes world questing and/or island expeditions given from his post. Nothing which should reward loot greater than benthic.
Cry me a river. Also from what i can see in your discussions with Dejarous and co youre among the clueless people as well. Or attempting to nitpick to “prove your hur dur point”
Wintergrasp
Because you dont progress for 30-45min on a boss, yet alone entire raids. Ofc there is no time limit if you progress mythic for months.
Oh but lemme nitpick as well. On the same level as your nitpicking. You have a time limit. To clear the raid til the release of the next patch. Or else no reward as in no CE.
I dont need to give compelling reasons to keel the status quo.
You need to give compelling reasns to change it. ‘Pressure is bad’ isnt one.
There is a vast difference between you ignoring the timer and you getting to circumvent and cheat the system. You didn’t earn a key upgrade therefore you aren’t entitled to one.
It would be incredibly unfair to everyone who pushes keys and does make the timers to give an upgrade to a key they did not time. The whole system and set up is tied to timing keys, that is the entire point of mythic plus. The rewards increase with key level to a maximum, after which you are solely relying on titanforges.
If whilst ignoring the timer you do time a key then you can get an upgrade but why would you need an upgrade if you can’t time them.
A practice mode with no rewards, no recorded time, no ranking, no weekly chest rewards might be a way of doing that but I personally don’t agree with there being one. The point of Mythic plus is that it’s a group against the timer with one shot at timing it. If you fail your key depletes a level (and location depending on whether you finished it) and you have to run it again to push it back up.
those who dont like it just dont do mythic +
we are not discussing here what they can do now in game. we are talking about hypothetics.
and its pretty obvious that there are 2 groups - one that is happy with current design and one that is not.
im for example ok with what we have now - i just deliberately dont participate in this because i dont find it fun . and its ok.
That’s not what I said champ.
Reading comprehension 101.
Your own words: “then no loot for you” as a reply to my statement: “No because that’s not content I enjoy. It’s that simple.” Wasn’t talking about TF. Was talking about being able to earn gear in every kind of content, not just your own precious little bubble. Champ.
They actually do. Well; I agree with them is more appropriate, since it’s their game.
You can stop with the insults. You don’t know me. You have no clue about me. So stop assuming with your stupid biased views and let other people have their opinions. It’s absolutely fine you don’t like TF, but you’re spreading nonsense. Nonsense that I have seen time and again because people like you keep repeating it as if it’s true (which it’s not, just to be clear) and other people who don’t like the system for whatever reason just lap it up like a bunch of sheep and actually believe the lies and nonsense.
I’m NOT saying TF is perfect. At all. But it serves a purpose. The fact that YOU don’t need that purpose, or want that purpose to even exist does NOT mean it has any less importance for those who DO want/need it.
Your fun does not trump someone else’s fun (and no, neither does mine trump yours, before you’re going to say that; that is why I have agreed with loads of suggestions people have made to make TF less of a problem for THEM - limiting the maximum ilvl proc, no socket procs, etc). But straight-out removing it IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE a solution: You’re just giving other people problems then. Hence the egocentric remarks.
so careful pulls and cc are now “cheating” ?
how low mmorpgs have fallen
How would you confuse giving people key upgrades for dungeons they haven’t timed with people timing dungeons?!?!
That really doesn’t scream “Endurance Test” to me.
Except you are, especially if things are going down slowly or progress is slow either because AFK, low DPS or the Tank being super careful with pulls.
That really only works with dungeons that have some open room and aren’t narrow corridors that either forces you in to conflict with mobs, or try to play Metal Gear Solid by skirting past mobs with milimeter breathing room.
“Can you punch through the difficult dungeon against overwhelmingly powerful enemies and without dying a lot for great rewards?”. Something like that.
I’d still be happier without the timer, thanks.
Sure, just I’m not playing as a Tank so I can’t really adopt that mindset, and I don’t trust the Tank to play ball and lead the group in a manner that allows the healer and DPS to breathe easy.
How do you think this? I obviously don’t want the timer to be a factor in how the end results are, you obviously do, we’re the polar opposites on this.
Sure, just let me find a group that don’t demand an inflated item level number to do a +9 run, as the highest I’ve ever done was +7… Eight months ago, or around mid 8.1 whenever that was.
You sound clueless as well. Thanks for the talk, buh-bye <3
You call it nitpicking, I call it dissecting to show where people are wrong.
Ah, right, that thing exists as well. Oh, and you forgot to mention Tol Barad, so now you played yourself as well. Thanks for playing.
Good thing we’re talking about the instances themselves, and not about encounters.
And according to Dejorus (Don’t care enough to get the name right), timers are there to make people complete runs in a reasonable timeframe. With that logic, all raids should have two hour timers, and when those timers expire, everyone in the raid is kicked out and will have to try again next week. After all, they should be completed in a reasonable timeframe, no? 
Keep call it nitpicking, because it totally makes you more in the right
Who gives a mekrob about Cutting Edge? If you really wanted to nitpick, you’d say “Timer before the next patch, otherwise no loot or anything from the previous tier, in fact no access to the raid at all” if you wanted to be petty about it.
I gave pretty compelling reasons, not my problem if you willfully ignored them or try to downplay them in your mind to get a one-up on me.
Here’s another compelling reason; It’ll give people more reason to care about Mythic dungeons. And in the end, isn’t that what the game is about? To encourage people to give everything a try or at least care about systems in game? At least that is what I always hear PvP people yammer out when people say that they don’t like certain things locked behind PvP.
Are we really so far gone that people are stooping to calling things as “Cheating the system”? And here I thought you were cool.
Which is why I, and probably other players suggest a rework for Mythic+. Or a separate Mythic mode that says “Untimed” and “Timed”. Two separate modes, everyone wins! Except for people who want to hold on to their timed modes until they die apparently.
Who cares about those people? They should feel proud to get it in-time and to get better rewards, why should they start crying if someone else got a level up? How does it affect them or their souls?
Then Mythic+ is a failure.
I don’t agree with that either, because those would be absolutely worthless and pointless to do, so better give rewards at least.
I know, it’s crazy. And here I thought ESO was the pit of PvE MMO Gaming.
Simple; You don’t. If people completed those dungeons, then that should be all good, no?