You know that i have said before that players in all different game modes should have access to the same gear eventually as we have discussed ways to make this happen.
The point is there is an easy way to complete the raid now. If it would make it more attractive to people by raising the Ilvl of the loot drops in LFR then i dont really have an issue with it.
I dont think that people who raid Heroic and mythic do it for the gear, its easier to farm M+ for that.
They do it to challenge themselves and see if they are good enough to complete it.
I am in the middle of working through Mythic raid right now but my main already has most of the BIS gear and is 447. Im not there to get to 448 or 449, im there because i like to see if i can do it.
They why bother making a raid at all? If no one did the raids im sure blizz would have stopped making them by now, its been 20 years and the constant in all of that time have been new raids each patch.
Could be, sure.
But then that means that only a minority of the playerbase is actually interested in ‘challenging themselves and see if they’re good enough’.
I hope you get my point?
Why are the devs expected to keep making content aimed towards a minority? Some content sure, of course. But raids take a lot of time and resources to develop compared to other content made for minorities (like PvP or pet battles for instance).
I think that if blizz decided that it was not worth making they would pull it. Without numbers we cannot be sure.
If they did stop making raids then i think it would be a sad day for wow. I know you are of a different mindset as its not content you engage in but the game would feel less to me.
I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. Either way i dont think discussions about this will ever yield any practical answers because people are invested in their own ways of playing.
I think thats always been one of wows strengths…
Without LFR, they would have. LFR saved raiding.
(they stated that years ago).
I’m not advocating for removal of raids, to be clear.
I’m just saying: Maybe its time to look into ways to make raiding more appealing to the general audience and not just this minority.
I definitely understand the appeal of large scale stuff. It might not be for me, because the format of WoW’s raids is just boring and uninteresting to me.
But a larger audience would benefit everyone, right? So I think it is worth discussing ways to improve ‘appeal’.
couldnt agree more, but ppl only want to do 20 min quick dungeons for easy loot and high rio (which is pointless between 2,5k and title)
you are forced to do m plus if you want to raid, but you dont have to raid to do m plus (if you just want to do 20s, because higher rio is still pointless)
Well maybe you are right, i dont know how many people are still playing wow right now but from what i read (which could be wildly inaccurate) its between 1 and 3 million
I have had a look at this seasons raid and from the numbers of guilds who went in there i can see that conservatively ( assuming that every NM or HC raid was only 10 players)over 400000 people have been into the raid on either normal, HC or mythic.
There will be overlap here but i would say that even if you halve this it means that between 6-25% of people have been in the raid. I dont think that is unreasonable number.
I suspect that PVP would be around the same or even less.
Which makes it all the more sad for those players that they hardly ever get new content.
If PvP was treated roughly the same as raiding, they would get a new Battleground or arena every season.
And I do NOT even like PvP. But it is a sad fact.
Hell… Maybe, just maybe that’s one of WoW’s issues: Too much focus on one particular minority group and not enough on the other minorities.
Probably not; WoW has had various problems over the years. And overal I like DF.
Though… Something isn’t quite right if players aren’t coming back. But this is another topic altogether.
This is nonsence you would take gear progress from people that likes to play M+ only
WHy would you go that way?
Most people play m+ because it is more fun then raiding and they can play it with friends in a small closed group…
You would kill that type of gameplay just like blizzard did it back in the day when they killed off 10 man raiding
So you saying that you can go into mythic raids 10 man group of friends to beat CE
just like you could do back in the day to beat ragnaros HC for example?
No you cannot if you want to do actual raiding you need to play in 20 raid team
so blizzard in fact killed 10 man raiding
You talking about flexible raiding normal or HC 2/3/9 or 2/5/14 etc etc
That’s not what i meant
depends on the point of the addon…if you come out from vault of incarnates you didnt have to do any m plus to finish hc in the first week. you are right on this point, there was no m plus mandatory
if you start from the addon and you start raiding with only open world content, its somewhat hard dont you think? ^^
Most guilds and communities aren’t that hardcore that they finish heroic in the first week. Most start on normal and when finished they start on heroic. There are also who only do progress normal. My guild is on the last boss of heroic
I agree when you want to be in the top 1% of the raiders you need to do some M+. When you want to be top 1% M+ you need to mythic raid too.
that was no flex on my point, just it was possible this season and wanted to agree on your point…sorry for the arrogance in my sentence
but when your guild finished hc last season…this season had to be much more easy in normal right? its like from myth to hc.
i was in a few guild(range 2k-200 worldranking) and all said do m plus for chest/vault or you dont take it serious. i have to say in legion/bfa you just have to do a single m plus for your chest and you were done…now you can do up to 8 for the best chances and yeah ofc you do your 8(and more for bis from m plus) in the first weeks.
Funny part is at lower ranks the ppl the guild officers were more harsh in this than in my guild now, because my guild is trusting that you do your best possible to be prepared for the raid.
I do a few mistakes here and there and want to compensate it with better gear ofc
Dropping difficulty for raid difficulties will only bring a short term spike to activity, as, based on the experience I had eith the casual side of the guilds I have been in, people will engage with the raid when it is on farm for at most a month. Participation starts dropping massively once the last boss dies, unless there is a carrot to pull people back to it like a legendary.
The problem lies in the game not educating people on how their class/spec works, and the fact that not many are in favor of strict schedules as much as they were 15+ years ago. The difficulty is only an issue because, and I do not mean this in an offensive way, the majority has no idea what to do with their abilities.
If you do not have a grasp on your spec and you do around 50k DPS in an environment where a decent player pulls 120k, and the fight is balanced around DPS doing 70k then the lower down the ladder you go the harder will people find the raiding difficulties. That does not mean that the raid is overtuned though, it just means that the raid as a collective isn’t up to meet the damage requirements.
There are obvious outliers to this of course. Razsageth was a big step up in DPS and HPS requirements compared to the rest of the raid, still people labelled the entirety of the raid hard because of the last two bosses.
Even in LFR the biggest difficulty the boss had was people getting knocked off from the platform. That is what Blizzard can work harder on to help players: better telegraphing, or perhaps the adventurer’s guide could have small gifs/images that showcase how specific mechanics work.
But that again means that people need to look at the adventurer’s guide, which they do not.
tl;dr :the difficulty is fine, it is the format and lack of coaching in game makes it unappealing for many to interact with it.
