This is non-canon, per War Crimes. While both Alliance and Horde forces contributed to the ICC push, it’s confirmed in War Crimes that it was the Horde and Saurfang who fought against Dranosh, so Varian’s speech never happened.
We don’t know this. What we do know however, is that Anduin made clear indications in the new cinematic, that he needs Saurfangs help to defeat Sylvanas, while Saurfang said annoying stuff like: I hoped you would stop her.
They could have made a deal we don’t know anything about yet.
Maybe to you it isn’t that big of a deal, but if I was Horde, I would’t want to work with someone who makes “deals” with my mortal enemy and I would rather side with someone who wages war against my enemy and uses me as a tool, than someone who makes deals with my enemy to remove an unwanted leader…
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I do not remember this being non-canon, especially as both factions were present in ICC at the time. Care to copy the rellevant part? I am in a raid, typing between bosses.
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He didn’t hesitate. He decided not to.
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Personally the help from the Alliance is the cherry atop the Honor Cake. And I dislike all of it.
“The words were true - the brave Dranosh Saurfang had been slain at what had become known as the Battle of Angrathar the Wrath Gate, only to be drafted to rise again as an undead to challenge his father and other heroes of the Horde.”
I don’t have a page reference, but google will find other people verifying it correct.
I do not see this disputing Alliance presence, though. It disputes the version of Saurfang arriving after the battle.
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I’d say it is very unlikely that Anduin and Saurfang had some sort of meeting after he left his prison cell door open and walked off.
And I am pretty sure what Anduin means by needing Saurfang is to save the Horde from itself before they get wiped out by the Alliance (as well as the Alliance losing loads in the process). Nathanos comments before the new raid states that they need the Zandalari fleet or they will be “crushed”, maybe I am looking into the “crushed” word to much but to me that comes across as they being destroyed in a pretty easy way. And after the raid Nathanos continues to say how the Alliance is closing their grip and victory is within their grasp.
If they did then it would be silly for it to be shown at a later date. And it would really be patchy that Anduin just walks off then to come back.
Well if I was Horde then I wouldn’t have wanted this war to begin with, nor if it did break up to instantly turn it into a genocidal one to basically wipe out life on Azeroth. Or mine Azerite which is killing the planet and so on. Part of the reason I left Horde to begin with was Sylvanas becoming Warchief for what is basically fan service. And even as Horde I’ve wanted to kill her.
This is just my opinion ofc’.
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It mentions explicitly facing “Horde heroes”, not “Horde and Alliance” heroes. It doesn’t even call out just “Saurfang and other heroes”, which would be a fair statement if both were true.
That it specifies Horde heroes is telling. Only one of the ICC gunship battles could have been canon because they were mutually exclusive. One had to win, one had to lose. War Crimes confirmed that Horde won and went on to fight Dranosh.
Yup.
I would go with Saurfang. It’s simple for me. He is capable of feeling guilt. This alone makes him someone I could side with even if not exactly cheerfully.
Mind, from Alliance’s point of view, Saurfang is the enemy. He waged war through Kaldorei lands, not Sylvanas for starters. And from a Draenei’s point of view, an orc is always suspicious, especially the one who butchered Eredar on Draenor.
But, he feels guilt. He waged war against the Alliance and he is no Alliance enthusiast. Even if not perfect, Saurfang retains morality and suffers internally for his bad actions.
Sylvanas is pragmatism made manifest. Zero emotions. Zero morals. Zero guilt. Existance is all that matters.
I made quite a long post the other day about my opinion about that. Existance in itself without any higher goal, any morals, any standards is pointless for me.
Hence, while not outright claiming that the sense of honour is always good, I could never support someone for whom existance is nothing more than just existance.
Mind, this is a completely subjective opinion of mine and I am not judging anyone. Everyone is welcome to disagree.
That’s YOUR interpretation (could be right, but we don’t know yet)
Have you considered the following:
Anduin walks ahead into the Hallway and turns around, expecting Saurfang to follow him.
Because that’s what I immediately assumed when I saw the cinematic. I never even thought about Anduin simply leaving… That would be such an anime thing to do…
Indeed
Don’t feel too excited yet. Taliesin and his wife had a nice theory about Saurfang sacrifising himself as being responsible for the war, in order to save Sylvanas or something like that. And we all know Blizzard loves their Kerrigans.
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Ok, I do not mean to be rude now, or anything, but I opened the Chronicles, page 178 my version, assault on Icecrown Citadel, and that text you are quoting appears nowhere.
It says:
After the proud orc had fallen at the Wrath Gate, the Scourge had recovered his corpse. The Lich King had transformed Dranosh into a death knight, and now he was forced to fight against his former allies-and they were forced to vanquish him. When Varok Saurfang learned what had become of his son, he was heartbroken. Even members of the Alliance sympathized with him, so malicious and brutal was the torment inflicted upon his beloved boy.
Your quote I can not find. Explain this sudden dichotomy to me, and do give me the War Crimes quote too.
What other way would you look at it from?
Near enough any other way would come as a contradiction to what is being said.
Perhaps this is just me but this comes across a lot more sexual then it should have xd.
I did provide the War Crimes quote. I posted it above. Of course you won’t find the quote I posted in Chronicles, because it’s not from that.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
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I meant the thing with anduin simply walking off, which I have already explained.
Nahh…
Anduin is into Draenei and Void Elves, while Saurfang is into male Trolls.
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Let me check War Crimes then, but be aware that Chronicles are the Highest canon, meaning you already lost this particular point in the debate. Further more, I am unconvinced that quote has the meaning you are attributing it.
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The War Crimes quote doesn’t disagree with the Chronicles quote, so both are simultaneously correct. Cool how that works innit.
Not really. You claimed the Horde won the airship battle, according to the Chronicles, there isn’t even an airship battle. Further more, your sentence must be checked. It can be spoken by a member of the Horde contemplating the tragedy of Saurfang junior facing the Horde and his father. Mentioning the Alliance within a Horde tragedy is redundant.
Cool how that works, innit? Also, you began retconning first, and I apparently have the last word. Shame, no?
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