Hunter changes for the future of p2

u just dont pay attention at all, do u? u know, the ART of discussing, is absorbing the counterargument, and making a new one on that basis. ure not doing that. ure still ignoring the facts to cling to a mute point already discarded several times over.

ill try to simplify:

warrior dies if warrior overaggros. thats bad warrior. warrior doesnt die if warrior good player.

hunter pet dies from mechanics, if bad hunter. if good hunter still dies or cant be used, pet cant be in melee. or pet dies from aoe’s. or from bad warriors and cleavemechanics. not bad hunter, but bad lencounterdesign and bad warrior.

my 7 year old could get that.

so in regards…

…thats a no

pet cant be used to dps, is 30-50% dps for a hunter, lost. we arent talking abt melee deaths, because deaths dont occur in melee given decent players. no point discussing bad ones. that happens if they cant play well and just spam buttons and stare at damagemeters. but pets still die to ticks, aoe, cleaves aso if u try using them.

so to sum that up -
risk for warrior loosing dps = 0
risk for hunter loosing dps =1

they say binary is the simplest logic, so i hope that does the trick.

if that manifests, they suck at the game. its not bad luck to overaggro, its bad playing. not how a game should be tuned.

u really are envious of FD arent u. did u play hardcore and wipedie, and the hunter lived with FD? is that the trauma that caused all this mindless fumbling of simple logic?

Lone Wolf is a dangerous concept for a rune because it completely removes one core aspect of the class. I have a feeling that those that want it desire to make MM the best spec for DPS and get rid of the pet, which makes me wonder why they would choose the pet class in the first place.

That said, it’s Blizzard’s fault for having only one class with ranged physical attacks so while I personally disagree with the rune, I hope the devs find a way to make it work for that sniper fantasy without overshadowing the other specs or play styles hunter has. SoD was (maybe still is…?) the perfect opportunity for rogues or warriors to get a ranged specialization.

The entire point of SoD is to spice things up and “make everyone OP” as the devs themselves said, which means bringing up those specs or play styles that could never flourish in the original vanilla and in most cases became viable or even strong in TBC, when their downsides were fixed.

Therefore, pets must scale and they must be relevant so that Beast Mastery can be a competitive DPS raiding specialization.

The main issue with BM as a spec and pets is that their contribution is entirely passive. The BM rune is strong because it’s active all the time regardless of what the hunter is doing.

So in order to be able to have sufficiently strong yet not oppressive pets (just like retail and future iterations of the game have), what we need is to shift the passive components into active interaction.

Kill Command, for example, could work as it does in retail or TBC, an active short cooldown ability that would become the main “shot” of the spec and benefit and interact with talents (e. g. Arcane Shot talents so that stuff like the trash MM one that reduces the CD can become useful) and runes, such as Cobra Strikes. The BM rune could have had an active component by requiring the hunter to do something in order to give the pet focus (a la Go for the Throat in future expansions), damage, etc.

By requiring active input from the hunter and spreading the damage profile to different abilities, procs, etc. you make the spec less of an auto-shot bot and reduce the issues in the environment that promoted the recent nerfs, PvP, because that’s the one and only reason why pets have been nerfed so much.

The early overtuned scaling would’ve been relatively fine if the BM rune didn’t give pets so much passive power but by getting both, it became too much.

Yet the nerfs are handed out poorly, as scorpid poison is now entirely useless because it doesn’t scale at all, despite the original blue post directly stating that the damage would be fine with 5 stacks of it. This is not the case, so we lost the option of having a new, different family pet being competitive as a DPS option, and not the eternal cats, raptors, wind serpents…

When it comes to tanking, the talent tree that has the most tools for it is survival. It even comes with its own tank CD in Deterrence. That said, a possible tank spec in which the pet helps in some way would be fine, I just don’t want it to be pigeonholed into BM because the spec (as well as melee hunter) should be able to deal DPS just like MM does.

MM has always been the main spec in all versions of vanilla. SoD is meant to spice things up, and so BM and melee should be competitive and as good as MM when it comes to raiding. Otherwise, what is the point of this season? To play the exact same way as always?

Right now, the most pressing matter is the awful state of hunter runes. They’re all bad. HotL blocks any other choice and the rest are strong enough to make the other runes in a slot situational or just worse regardless of spec (BM) or mostly useless (all leg runes except for Flanking Strike).

Just to give an example, KC provides around 5 or less DPS when used optimally. The dedicated BM leg rune is that terrible.

I think I’ve given enough of my own point of view and feedback on the matter. If you want, you can check my previous post on hunter feedback and pets here.

You have some interesting ideas. Things like Arcane Shot or Serpent Sting definitely need to scale off AP or be improved in some way.

I just hope Blizzard learns from the absolute fail that has been the implementation of hunter runes and fixes the existing ones as well as the future ones from P2 onwards.

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go play retail
the last thing we need in classic is the boring gameplay where hunters do not kite but stay and cast in opponent face

no dead zone enjoyers go back to retail, go play retail, you won’t be missed, we have enough hunters for p2, p3 and p4
like seriously, hunters class is overpopulated

agree, i wouldnt play it, but every other hunter wants to be |a spit melee cough hunter. im givin them smthn.

wount be with the new, same as the old, meta - if they dont change it.

I agree, but as a BM I don’t want to tank tho?

Whole reason I play BM is for the pet doing the tanking while I take care of positioning and battlefield awareness.

So no, community just need to get over the fact that pet can destroy someone as much as they got over the fact that rogue can stunlock them to death, mage can solo farm 150 mobs and so on.

Enough with trying to justify the pet being 80% of the class damage or whatever.
That’s a BM thing.

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love you m8, for such a comprehensive reply.

far as ive seen in wow, and i played vanilla til cata, and classic til being buffbot to 15 warriors got to me - hunter has been top dps once, during TBC, and that was as a BM spec. that itteration of hunter was fun of course, but cheesed by most players because it was made a 1 button spec, with the macro everyone used. not using it netted us around 3-5% dps at best, and was not worth it for most.

like I say, i love being MM, both solo and in grps. its more fun to manage it, and potentially more involved rotation, if they manage to make it so. and its due, for being the top spec, in my opinion.

half the people playing hunter now though, seem to be under some retailspell alure of melee hunting as a spec, being a “thing” so to satisfy everyone, that spec needs to be viable somehow, AND not bother those of us who prefer to be a true ranged class.

survival is the best tree to offer that, with its possibillities. Lone wolf, somehow, is allready in the game, as some sort of placeholder-rune. and pvp’er are beside themselves with pets dps potentials for BM allready, and blizzard has more or less promised to make their damage not count for much.
the class at the moment plays exactly as it did in vanilla. there is no new playstyle at all .

those facts all more or less dictates that the end of BM as a top dps spec has come.

so, working around those facts, making the best of things, i think its time for the MM to shine as the spec for endgame. i think thats in the cards for now.

imagine at lvl 40 with bestial wrath up, what the uproar will be. pets might become some vanity + item, with the latest blue post.

i dont see a viable pet based spec being an option for the dps spec for hunters. the only viable path seems to be the Rexxar-fantasy with the pet as a tank, and evolving a tank-option will be benefitial to hunters and to everyone else. thats just the current political climate, and not likely to change.

meleehunters need a function, and BM needs viabillity, and we need a dps spec that stays competative or the meta will yet again be -* “bring a hunter for heart of the lion + trueshot aura” *- for all the melee in any size raid. been there, done that, and not doing it again.

i agree - a 25 hunter has a deadzone and NO cc. the pet is the counter to that, and it was balanced. but alas, the dev’s (who do not play hunters) do NOT agree, if u read the clear warning in the latest blue post - so that isnt going to happen.

Lot of text, i agree.

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We hunters are way too strong, we need at least 2 more nerfs before phase 2 lands - it just isn’t fair on other classes.

Suggestions:

Domesticate pets - Pets can no longer attack but instead provide a loving companionship for your journeys too and from the GY.

Disable tab targeting - Hunters can no longer target enemies, instead they play in 1st person and have to aim all shots.

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the irony is strong in this one :slight_smile:
yea, if this trend continues, hunters will be farmingalts fo shoe.

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Rexxar - SV/BM hunter using melee/mid range - this is my hunter fantasy from 2003/2004 and I would say I am not alone.

SoD is great time to bring Rexxar style to players as a “spec”. Dual wielding, mid range/ throwing weapons (no bow,gun,xbow) hunter capable to take some beating and still deal some dmg

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That’s exactly it yes, given the choice to players to have their fantasy with a BM spec, an MM sniper spec (with Lone wolf or without) and a Rexxar-like spec.

The problem is that the WoW “community” will complain if a pet kills a player, if a hunter kills a player in melee, and if a hunter kills a player from a distance too easily.

The only way these mourners would leave us alone would be if the hunter remained what he currently is, average, no really interesting and engaging spec, faded compared to the other classes.

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yea, as long as that option is in the survivaltree, i am 100% a-ok with that. i have 0 objections to it. if its part of MM, i object with vigor. u can have rexxar, and legolas if u run lone wolf (also why i suggest it buffed back to 25% and given a leap abillity to counter deadzone greifing)
all i wanna do is chase prey with my hunting pet and bow.

non-hunters have hated on hunter for being op&ez since beta in vanilla. its wow’s oldest meme “nerf hunters”.
im used to it after 20 yrs.

trouble with hunters is we have 1 single purpose really. damage. thats all. if we arent on par with the best at that, we arent good enough. they added some buffs to the class, so the “big kids” would play with us, but in their lack of wisdom, made them raidwide. and in the case of HotL - a nerf to personal dps, to boot.
we are NOT in a good place in SoD, because of where things are going.

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And let’s remember this was the point when hunters could do top dps with a single button macro.

and now warriors use 1 button, not even a macro. devestate tanking does 300 dps.

150*
If i manage to get lucky with the wildstrikes for a short period of time on my warrior.

get better gear then.

utube; [guzu] The Most BROKEN Tank Spec in SOD!

Exception, not the norm.

pls ellaborate? whats the unique feature there? thats not lucky, its a perfect example of warriors scaling with synergy in decent gear and winning as TANK, with 1 BUTTON.

nothing unusual actually. just get geared up.

Align the stars, get the perfect buffs, have some luck with the synergy that makes everything flow perfectly.

I’ve once did 225 dps on my shaman because of lucky crits with wild strikes. Is that the norm?

That happened in Legion too. Hunters had 2 buttons; one for AoE and one for single target.

Demon Hunters were made to be super easy to play, yet hunter was still easier.

And utility.

If there’s ever some garbage mechanic that needs to be dealt with (such as the belt on Seigemaster in SoO) then it’s usually the hunters job since they have a much easier time than anybody else.